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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
After reading numerous comments regarding the differences between the S, GTS and Turbo, I can't help but marvel at the almost painfully misinformed comments such as "the only improvement on the GTS handling is due to it being 10mm lower" or "the GTS is mostly useless exterior trim changes" or "a lowered Turbo will handle just like a GTS, or even better if you lower it even more with an aftermarket lowering kit", I decided to research more in depth WHAT IS IT that makes the GTS different.

If after reading this, you still think that you can make a GTS simply by adding external trim options lowering links and slapping a GTS logo, then do that and be happy.

I know that inevitably we will hear comments regarding how you will most likely not notice the GTS difference in your daily run to Whole Foods. To those I will say that the same would apply to the difference between a base 911 and a GT3. I dare you to notice the difference in daily city driving between the two of them. The fact that you don't drive it in a way where you notice it, does not mean that there are serious, highly technical engineering changes between them. And those changes are what makes these vehicles special.

Does everyone need, or want these things? No. But it is always nice to know what you have paid for.

Note: This list DOES NOT include those items that are standard on the GTS but that you can add to any other model (ie: Black window trim, or Sport Design Package).
Only those that are included on the GTS that you can't order separately on any other model (ie: Black Aluminum interior trim).

So, here they are, and please feel free to add to the list in case I missed anything else:

- 360 HP and 369 Lb-ft of torque 3.0 engine with upgraded internals:
- 17.4 PSI Turbo boost vs 14 PSI for S.
- New Camshaft.
- Revised air intake path.
- Reduced exhaust back pressure.
- New Piston design and other beffed-up internal components.
- High-rev horsepower curve, with max power at 6,000 rpm.
- 159 MPH top speed.
(This is mostly what makes a BIG difference between a GTS and just adding a chip to an S. The GTS is DESIGNED to handle more power.)

- Enhanced Transmission:
- Sturdier PDK Trasmission (as in Turbo).
- Retuned transmission shifting algorithm.

- Improved brakes:
- 14.8" front disk brakes with red calipers (as in Turbo.
(It is not only designed to go faster, but also to stop better).

- Especially tuned Porsche Sport Exhaust with natural cabin amplification.
(Why it sounds better than the S or Turbo with PSE).

- Enhanced Chassis tweaks:
- Air Springs with retuned PASM programming.
- 0.4" lower than standard Air Suspension.
- 10% stiffer than standard Air Suspension.
- Stiffer and thicker rear stabilizer bar.
- Greater rearward bias of torque distribution.
- Retuned PTM (traction management) stability controls allow 15 degrees more yaw before stepping in.
- Sport Plus setting of Sport Chrono–equipped models ...adds an intermediate Sport ESC mode, which is available only on the GTS and allows a bit more slip-angle leeway before intervening.
- The Porsche Stability Management System has been completely recalibrated for the GTS to provide even more “dynamic driving experience,” says the automaker (this means a driving enthusiast won’t feel restrained by an overly aggressive stability control system).

- Interior/Exterior Trim upgrades:
- Standard 8-way Sport Seats
- Exclusive GTS interior trim
- Black brushed aluminum trim
- GTS logo on headrests, tachometer, PCM, side blades and rear hatch.
- 20" Black RS Spyder wheels.

And I will close by adding a couple of comments from Torsten Gaertner, senior engineer of driving dynamics for the Macan:

- “The GTS is much more a driver’s car.”
- “The AWD is more rear-wheel biased.”
- “This is what the engineers envisioned when they designed the Macan"


So, the next time you hear that you can have GTS driving dynamics by simply lowering the suspension, please give Porsche Engineering a little bit more credit for what they have actually done!

P.S. And by the way, in case you were wondering, this post took me a LOT more time to research than counting the number of buttons on the Macan GTS (103)... ;)

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Unfortunately the turbos are undersized, even with ECM calibration it makes less power than a Macan T


And yet this is not a comparison to the Turbo. Nobody has questioned if the GTS has more power to the Turbo that I can recall. The thread is about what changed in the GTS from the other versions of the Macan. Also the Turbo has Alcantara headliner standard, but that wasn't questioned either ;)

BTW I don't recall reading about the Turbo's turbos being bigger. As a matter of fact, both the GTS and the T's make 17 PSI of boost.
 

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To those I will say that the same would apply to the difference between a base 911 and a GT3. I dare you to notice the difference in daily city driving between the two of them.
Oh I don't know about that... most of us that are at an age to be able to afford those cars would need to see a Chiropractor after using the GT3 on a daily drive!! At least a Carrera is comfortable! :)
 

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To those I will say that the same would apply to the difference between a base 911 and a GT3. I dare you to notice the difference in daily city driving between the two of them.
Alex, I applaud you for digging out this info. What you discovered is how PAG adds HP, the old fashioned way. Unlike chipping, they just don’t turn up the boost but gave it a more radical cam, increased the breathing, modify the exhaust, modified the pistons to handle the boost, and modified the PDK. This is the inherent flaw with getting cheap HP with chips. This increase is the same fundamental approach they use with the X51 kit for a 911. They make power the old fashioned way: increase breathing, more radical cam, polish the heads, and exhaust.

Good job in digging this out.

But I got to take exception to your base Carrera vs GT3 analogy. Sorry, not even close. If you can’t tell the difference in daily driving between the two, there is something really wrong with the driver. Just a “few” examples:

A. The tires. The GT3 comes with R compounds unsuited for rain and can be dangerous below 45. At 20 they can crack. The Carrera has normal street production tires

B. The suspension is radically different. You can corner balance the GT3. A base Carrera rear spring rate is 45nm. A SPASM S is 108nm. I don’t know the GT3 number but the bushings are even harder. Yes, you will notice this.

C. The GT3 wheels are center locks requiring 443 ft to break. Good luck with that.

D. A GT3 is much lower requiring a front axle lift to be reasonable on the street. You will rip the front end off with a low break over angle. Imagine every time you turn into anything with an angle you need to raise the front end.

E. A 3.4 Carrera engine wails. A GT3 engine screams with a 9,000 rpm redline. Absolutely NO comparison. Yes, you will notice this. Its hard not to.

F. The PDK is PDK-S, not regular PDK


In other words, you WILL know the difference driving to MdDonalds (not to mention the huge wing so you can’t see all that good out the back :eek:)

But I get your point. Good job. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Alex, I applaud you for digging out this info. What you discovered is how PAG adds HP, the old fashioned way. Unlike chipping, they just don’t turn up the boost but gave it a more radical cam, increased the breathing, modify the exhaust, modified the pistons to handle the boost, and modified the PDK. This is the inherent flaw with getting cheap HP with chips. This increase is the same fundamental approach they use with the X51 kit for a 911. They make power the old fashioned way: increase breathing, more radical cam, polish the heads, and exhaust.



Good job in digging this out.



But I got to take exception to your base Carrera vs GT3 analogy. Sorry, not even close. If you can’t tell the difference in daily driving between the two, there is something really wrong with the driver. Just a “few” examples:



A.The tires. The GT3 comes with R compounds unsuited for rain and can be dangerous below 45. At 20 they can crack. The Carrera has normal street production tires



B.The suspension is radically different. You can corner balance the GT3. A base Carrera rear spring rate is 45nm. A SPASM S is 108nm. I don’t know the GT3 number but the bushings are even harder. Yes, you will notice this.



C.The GT3 wheels are center locks requiring 443 ft to break. Good luck with that.



D.A GT3 is much lower requiring a front axle lift to be reasonable on the street. You will rip the front end off with a low break over angle. Imagine every time you turn into anything with an angle you need to raise the front end.



E.A 3.4 Carrera engine wails. A GT3 engine screams with a 9,000 rpm redline. Absolutely NO comparison. Yes, you will notice this. Its hard not to.



F.The PDK is PDK-S, not regular PDK





In other words, you WILL know the difference driving to MdDonalds (not to mention the huge wing so you can’t see all that good out the back :eek:)



But I get your point. Good job. :)


Thanks @grim! Of course the 911 to GT3 is a reduction to absurd on my behalf to make a point. I've seen my fare share of soccer moms driving Cayenne Turbo S's with ceramic brakes and doing 45 MPH on the left lane of the highway. Clearly they have no idea what they are driving, most likely they bought it because they liked the color and it was the only one in stock at the dealership in that color. My point is that most people -unlike aficionados- don't know what is underneath the hood, and may never realize what the differences were between what they got and any other model.

In the case in point, the GTS, most likely a lot of GTS buyers may never know what it took Porsche to develop it. They just know that it looks cool and sounds better than the 'other' Macan they jut tested.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Where is the dead horse emoticon when I need it...


It is just below the other post that describes all the features included in the GTS. Look for it if you can find it. I couldn't, that is why I wrote this one.
 

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So, I appreciate @alex_c posting this type of detailed info. I don't feel he's putting down any other model.

And I understand S and Turbo owners can get ther hackles up when reading his post.

Bottom line, at least to me, is any Macan is way more capable than I'll ever be. It's way more capable than most cars on the road, let alone other SUV's.

I drive my Macan in many different ways. Often sedately. This past weekend, coming from Bar Harbor, Maine to Portsmouth, NH, sedate isn't exactly how I'd describe it. Many back country roads, many opportunities to legally pass other cars, RV's, etc.

Many instances where one lane turned into two with slower traffic moving over and those behind me doing their darnedest to keep up with me and to their chagrin unable to.

Yeah, my wife was just on the phone with one of our kids and said, "Dad sped here" and she wasn't lying.

And my Macan pleased me to no end, made me smile wide every time I stepped on that pedal, as I know S owners do, as I was one, as I know GTS owners do as evidenced by the many passionate owners here.

None of that takes away from Alex's research which I find very interesting and informative.
 

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Good research but a perhaps a little too much PR spin regurgitated?


"Especially tuned Porsche Sport Exhaust with natural cabin amplification" - maybe you can clarify that rather than just lifting it?


That would be that the fake noise from the speaker bolted to the bulkhead is stronger?


You missed that the smaller rear disks from the turbo reduce the unsprung mass.


And you do realize that the car's Logo on the PCM and rev counter are (mutually) excusive on all Porsches? That's PR words with no meaning.


I guess from the length or your post you are feeling a little insure on your choice? Drive it and enjoy rather than over analyzing how effective the marketing department was in convincing you.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Good research but a perhaps a little too much PR spin regurgitated?


"Especially tuned Porsche Sport Exhaust with natural cabin amplification" - maybe you can clarify that rather than just lifting it?


That would be that the fake noise from the speaker bolted to the bulkhead is stronger?


You missed that the smaller rear disks from the turbo reduce the unsprung mass.


And you do realize that the car's Logo on the PCM and rev counter are (mutually) excusive on all Porsches? That's PR words with no meaning.


I guess from the length or your post you are feeling a little insure on your choice? Drive it and enjoy rather than over analyzing how effective the marketing department was in convincing you.


First of all, I'm not "regurgitating PR info". I'm trying to find facts to illustrate the difference between GTS and other models, plain and simple. And I thought it was necessary based on the uninformed comments all around regarding the GTS, like "the only difference is that it is 10mm lower, so you can do the same with $150 lowering links and save $12K!".

The logos info was only to indicate where the GTS moniker appears on this model. I don't recall seeing the "S" on the corresponding tach of the S. So that is the kind of uninformed comments I am trying to avoid.

And no, I am NOT feeling "insure" (sic). Perhaps you meant "insecure", which I am not feeling either. Actually I am extremely happy to have chosen a GTS, and that is why I wanted to research as much info as available on what makes this vehicle different.

And no, the marketing department was not convincing at all, as I did not get any marketing info at all before ordering the GTS. I simply read the specs and did pricing analysis comparing all 3 models and came out with the conclusion that for me the best option was the GTS.

Perhaps it is you who is feeling "insure" after reading that what you thought was only cosmetic changes on the GTS are not just so. ;)

And by the way, the Macan DOES NOT have a speaker induced exhaust sound. It is naturally generated. The changes to the air intake and lower exhaust pressure help with the PSE sound naturally, which sounds quite different from an S or a Turbo. And by "different" I mean better.

If you are going to dispute a post, please document yourself first.
 

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I've seen people speculate a few times about a "Speaker" in use by Porsche for the exhaust sound. According to a giant exhibit in the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart, Porsche *never* uses fake exhaust sounds or speakers to amplify. The exhaust sound you hear is always 100% the actual engine and they take great pride in tuning the exhaust for each engine.
 

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Some interesting reading here: http://www.macanforum.com/forum/engine-technical-discussion/97642-sports-exhaust-largely-fake.html



I've seen people speculate a few times about a "Speaker" in use by Porsche for the exhaust sound. According to a giant exhibit in the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart, Porsche *never* uses fake exhaust sounds or speakers to amplify. The exhaust sound you hear is always 100% the actual engine and they take great pride in tuning the exhaust for each engine.
 

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Thanks, @alex_c!! Your post validates the decision I made recently to trade my S for a GTS!! It makes me smile... I was unaware of all the differences... and now I feel like I really got a lot more than I bargained for!!

Thanks again for all your work on this!! Enjoy your GTS!!

0:)
 

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Thanks, @alex_c!! Your post validates the decision I made recently to trade my S for a GTS!! It makes me smile... I was unaware of all the differences... and now I feel like I really got a lot more than I bargained for!!

Thanks again for all your work on this!! Enjoy your GTS!!

0:)
+1 from me (I also traded in my S on a GTS), and now I know why!

Haha.

Alex, your post to start this thread is one of my favorites after a month browsing the forum. : ) Bravo!
 

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@alex_c

This ought to be a sticky thread . The detailed summary is phenomenal !! It's those minor tweaks in the suspension which I immediately noticed . Although not as fast as a Turbo in straight line or as luxurious in ride the GTS represents the more dynamic driving car to me. I never would have thought this had I not driven and owned both .

PS. I love the reference of "lower it more" (lol) . I've seen guys take a 911 S and spend more than a Gt3 trying to make it a Gt3 only to end up giving up or buying a Gt3 . Across the board there are significant differences amongst the variants.


Once again .. Thanks for posting it !!
 

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Which validates what I said.. Audi and VW fake it, Porsche does not. Grim's post #5 in that thread jives with what Porsche says. They may resonate it to get the sound they want, but it's all from the engine. There is no speaker or other gimmicks. Porsche prides themselves on the sound of their engines, it's one of the reasons they even let you hear it on the confusilator.
 

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@alex_c - Thank you for putting this together. We got the GTS mainly for the price point as it made the most financial sense. I'm a skeptic and always will be and dismiss most of this stuff as marketing hype. Now I agree that many of these things prevent one from turning an "S" into a "GTS." It's mostly comments about one or the other being more luxurious that miss the point. It's the same dang car. Sure, the GTS and the Turbo have some things that the S doesn't, but its not like Porsche pulled the back seats and put a roll cage in the GTS. On the Porsche scale of GTS variants, the differences seem relatively tame and for most people ultimately a marketing bundle.
 

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Which validates what I said.. Audi and VW fake it, Porsche does not. Grim's post #5 in that thread jives with what Porsche says. They may resonate it to get the sound they want, but it's all from the engine. There is no speaker or other gimmicks. Porsche prides themselves on the sound of their engines, it's one of the reasons they even let you hear it on the confusilator.
FYI it's not 'jives' it's 'jibes' with a 'b'.
Class dismissed!
 
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