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The Official "Will this void my warranty?" Discussion / Debate Thread

58K views 188 replies 100 participants last post by  Mleibrock 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
A sticky about warranty and aftermarket parts would be helpful....
Here's the legal standing on consumer warranties in the US market:

Auto Warranties & Routine Maintenance | Consumer Information

Doesn't mean a dealer won't give you a big hassle should you show up for service with aftermarket parts looking for warranty coverage. It's always best to establish your dealer's tolerance for aftermarket parts and make a decision how to proceed. Sure, the law may be behind you, but is it worth arbitration or court action to get a dealer or PCNA to cover major repairs due to something like a catback exhaust?
 
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#3 ·
Warranty v scheduled maintenance.

The scheduled maintenance for brake fluid change is 2 yrs/20,000 miles. I'll drive 20,000 miles in 7 months.

Every car I've owned bases brake fluid changes on time, not mileage since brake fluid is hygroscopic. I don't see the point of changing my brake fluid three times within two years. But if I change it biannually, will Porsche not warrant any part in brake system?
 
#4 ·
Warranty v scheduled maintenance.

The scheduled maintenance for brake fluid change is 2 yrs/20,000 miles. I'll drive 20,000 miles in 7 months. ... if I change it biannually, will Porsche not warrant any part in brake system?
New Car Limited Warranty & Customer Information Model Year 2016

p. 9

"This Warranty Does Not Cover: ... Parts that fail due to lack of required maintenance ...

Your Responsibility for Normal Vehicle Use ... To be properly maintained according to the Maintenance Schedule in the Maintenance Booklet and Car Care Instructions in your Owner’s Manual."


So what do you think? The 2 yrs/20,000 mile is "either", not both. If you are asking why do they do this, you will need to ask PCNA.
 
#5 ·
I have always wondered what something like the RaceChip would do for my warranty. Its easily removed in minutes, but does it leave its fingerprints on the ECU etc? I feel completely confident that the beefier PDK in my GTS could handle it, and the motor we know can handle much more power, but it worries me so I have decided not to do it. THe only car I tuned the ECU on was a GTI... but that was just a fun little around town car for me and the wife.
 
#7 ·
I change my cabin air filter every 6 months. The main reason is that it it activated charcoal and over time, the ability to clean the air is diminished.


This is something that you can skip, probably will never effect the performance of anything, however why not? I also wash my Macan a couple of times a week and that is probably not necessary either.
 
#9 ·
...Some dealers are mod friendly and many are not. But they just can't say your car is modded so it is not warranted. The mod has to be a possible cause of the issue... If you have a Cobb tune and a suspension issue they are not related. Even if they may be, some dealers will work with you to help get it covered.
I'm going to chime in here on this because your assessment is an often encountered misunderstanding of the realities a person might face when something expensive gives up the ghost after modding. This is going to be long but I think it's important for folks contemplating these kinds of mods to go in eyes open. Keep in mind here Gents that I am not an attorney, what I am going to pass on is some information about what you will face that I learned years ago while pursing an M&M action to its conclusion.

The first thing to understand is that possession is 90% of the law. When a car is purchased it comes with a warranty but you do not possess it, this because in order to utilize it you must go to a third party who also does not possess it. The third party is your dealership and it is Porsche that in reality possesses your new car warranty. The dealership is authorized by Porsche to act on a number of issues without first seeking approval from Porsche but for others they must first get approval from a regional rep before they can perform the warranty work. The line between what the dealership can do and cant do is primarily defined by cost. A power mirror goes out and the dealer can order parts and install them without approval from Porsche, lunch an engine and they can't. In the latter case that regional rep has to come in and approve the warranty coverage.

Who is this rep? He/she does not work for the dealership and does not sell cars. He/she does work for Porsche and has a specific job, to guard the gate. They can't be negotiated with and you will seldom have the opportunity to try, they don't have any mercy because they are not there to care for customers. They are highly trained and in recent years have gained significant tools to help them find abuses or ascertain the existence of other conditions that might have led to a failure.

Now we can talk about what happens when the rubber meets the road, we'll use a blown engine for our example. There you are, enjoying the new found power from anything; headers, tune, blower, doesn't matter. Suddenly you come to a stop with a lot of sickening noises coming from the engine. The car is towed to the dealership where they determine the engine is toast. Your dealer can't repair this without getting approval from the aforementioned rep. He comes in, does some investigating, determines that the car was modified so as to increase the power. He/she will then tell the dealership that Porsche will not be authorizing the warranty coverage. The reason will be because the car was modified to have more power changing it into something that they did not and do not sell. They have no obligation to warranty something they did not sell. I was told behind closed doors depending on the circumstances and the cost the dealership will often argue in favor of the customer and sometimes succeed but more often not. However that may be the dealership must now choose to either pay for all the parts themselves and cover the labor gratis or inform you of the bad news. Most of us are not going to be good enough customers to get the dealer to good will an engine meaning you're about to get a call from a service adviser that isn't good news.

So there you are... You decide to ask for a manager, service, sales, whatever. You make your case but get nowhere. You try to reach out to ownership, you get nowhere. You decide maybe it would be better if you drive down to the dealership and talk to them in person. You jump up and down, yell, scream, site the M&M act. It means nothing. You are not in possession of your warranty and never have been, in order to deny it the dealership needed only to say the words and it was done. But wait you say, Porsche cant do that, the M&M act has language stating that the dealer has to prove that the parts caused or contributed to the failure. You're right but not being in possession of the warranty you have to go through what may be a long process to prove it and it wont be cheap. Someone might tell you that the M&M act provides for the ability to ask for fees and it does but you are not guaranteed to get them even if you win. I won and asked for fees but did not get them.

Remember the part where it's said they have to prove the cause? Again the reality is quite different than you might imagine. What happens is they have a "stock" case for most potential denials which includes expert testimony and a whole bunch of charts and graphs. They take this and adapt it to your particular case and should you go to court will present it as their argument. There is no beyond a shadow of a doubt because this is not a criminal case. That information will be taken as truth and you lose automatically unless you produce all the information needed to refute it. You are in other words going to be in the position of proving you are innocent.

That folks is the reality of what you might face. Might. A lot of things can happen on the way and if you're honestly in the right you should see the coverage you were denied and have a good shot at getting fees as well. You should not however take that as a certain outcome.

I've avoided talking about specifics because individual states have their own laws which can further impact warranty litigation but I have a few other observations. The first one is that people often talk about having their warranty voided in total but this is only possible under specific circumstances that wont typically apply to the discussion here. That I can remember off hand are odo tampering and salvage title but there are a few others. What you are going to be faced with is a denial of a specific coverage and/or the further the possibility of having the drivetrain warranty voided for power adders. The remainder of the warranty will remain in effect regardless. Also about these reps I think it should be understood that they aren't evil and are not necessarily out to get you. I once chatted briefly with one of these fellows when getting oil changed on one of my Corvettes. There was a slight leak at an o-ring from a fitting under the oil pan and they brought me back to show me. As I was standing there looking another fellow came over from a different car and looked at it. He asked about the car, how I liked it, the usual chit-chat from what I assumed was another car guy and he moved on. I had noticed the dealership guys were a little nervous during the conversation and it turned out that would be because the fellow I had been chatting with was one of those reps and the conversation had occurred just a few feet from my shiny new long tube headers. He didn't say a word about them although he had clearly seen them and nothing ever happened with my warranty. No flags, nothing. Would things have gone differently if he saw those headers and the car had just came in with a blown engine? Probably.

I'm not preaching at anyone here, I'm a modder and have enjoyed the hobby all my life. Enough so that while I have no intentions of modding the Macan I couldn't resist coming to this section and reading about it anyways. I posted because I hate to see this kind of information go without some clarification about the real world of the process because the possibility for harm exists. I've no idea what an engine, tranny, diff, etc, cost here but I would be willing to bet many people would find replacing some of these items painful or might not be able to pay for them at all in a pinch.

Please keep in mind I'm not trying to scare anyone. It isn't likely most people will have a problem, it's a matter of what happens if you're the one that got unlucky. For myself I've gone both ways even after my encounter with Chrysler and the M&M act. Back when I had an E92 I decided I didn't want to be on the hook for a 26k engine and left it alone, I could have swallowed that pill but there would have been tears staining the check. On my Vettes on the other hand I let fly. In no way do I know what is right for anyone else other than to say that IMO a gut check should be made before proceeding.
 
#10 ·
Well said. I agree with everything you stated.
 
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#12 ·
Cobb Accessport does not void Porsche warranty?

Today the local Porsche Club of America chapter had their monthly tour. The President runs a Macan S with Cobb Accessport which was installed when brand new and the car now as 32k+ miles. According to him, Cobb Accessport tuning does not void the Porsche warranty as Cobb developed the Accessport tuner in conjunction with Porsche. That's news to me. No other tuner can make this claim? I intend to check this out with the local service manager. Is this true? If so, I know what I'm getting for Christmas.
 
#18 ·
Today the local Porsche Club of America chapter had their monthly tour. The President runs a Macan S with Cobb Accessport which was installed when brand new and the car now as 32k+ miles. According to him, Cobb Accessport tuning does not void the Porsche warranty as Cobb developed the Accessport tuner in conjunction with Porsche. That's news to me. No other tuner can make this claim? I intend to check this out with the local service manager. Is this true? If so, I know what I'm getting for Christmas.
If installed by the dealer before delivery then MAYBE, maybe the dealer would honor any warranty issues but be assured PCNA would not honor warranty claims caused by the tune or remotely caused by the tune.
 
#15 ·
from the horse's mouth

From the disclaimer in the COBB AccessPORT manual. COBB states that use of the product:

"Installation and use of the Accessport may void all or a portion of the vehicle manufacturer's standard warranty. There is no guarantee expressed or implied by COBB Tuning or any of its affiliates for the use of the Accessport. The user accepts all risks and responsibilities when using the Accessport."
:(
 
#16 ·
It may or may not void the warranty depending the nature of the problem, so it’s a big unknown.

The question is do you want to find out the hard way? For example, if you have a problem with the PDK or have an engine oil leak.
 
#22 ·
Wheel and brake caliper changes and warranty effect

Does anyone know if getting rims and brake calipers powder coated (or even painted for the calipers, not sure which is best but if you know please advise) has ANY impact whatsoever on warranty (buying new Macan)?
Of note, I will likely only be driving the vehicle about 5-7K miles per year.
 
#38 ·
Ceramic Pro on Wheels/Calipers

Does anyone know if getting rims and brake calipers powder coated (or even painted for the calipers, not sure which is best but if you know please advise) has ANY impact whatsoever on warranty (buying new Macan)?
Of note, I will likely only be driving the vehicle about 5-7K miles per year.
What about Ceramic Pro (or other ceramic coating) on wheels/brakes/calipers? Does anyone have experience with either Porsche warranty or a Wheel & Tire policy (I currently have CNA) being voided due to ceramic coating?
 
#24 ·
I would say yes. It would void the warranty. Why? The simple process of what needs to be performed with the caliper itself in the process of getting it powder-coated. I'll guess red... I'm gonna go out on a llimb here and say that a Porsche dealership will not do this for you. I'm not sure if they would recommend you to someone who does. But, friendship or kinship helps sometimes. Or, you shop for someone or you've found someone who you believe does great work. You drop off the Macan and....

The brake line is disconnected by Billy-Bob's Independent Porsche Shop's best mechanic. Boom! Your Porsche warranty just got voided for the braking system. This also means they will never service that part of your Macan again. And this point could also potentially run you the risk of not being able to keep your Porsche maintained per their major service intervals. This could potentially impact resale value if traded back to Porsche. It could never be "Porsche CPO" by them because of the mod. How will the dealership know? You changed the color...

But, they might not catch it. It's your Macan....
 
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#29 ·
The brake question has been merged into the appropriate sticky. For the person asking the question, read the experience in post #9 and I'll reiterate post #21

"You, as a US consumer, are protected by the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. The essence is that consumers are not required to use parts made by whoever made a product. This is not specific to cars, its anything. Read this about electronics. [broken link] However, its a two way street. If what you do messes up something, then its on your dime. This is discussed endlessly, over and over again, mostly in auto forums. How many people mod their lawn mowers?

Read your WARRANTY. What does it say?
Read the first reference in this thread from the FTC [LOL, another broken link]
Read the actual MM act [USC04] 15 USC Ch. 50: CONSUMER PRODUCT WARRANTIES

and most of all, read the voice of experience: https://www.macanforum.com/forum/eng...ml#post1832481

In practice, from what I've read and experienced, you break it, you fix it. There are countless threads on this all over the internet, people complaining "but but ..." From what I understand, what breaks has to be relevant to what you changed. But here's the big thing and relates to this post above. Car makers are VERY VERY Big with lots of experience in handling these things. You are very very tiny. I've looked for cases where car models fought using MM. Its rare they win. It does happen. But is it worth the aggravation, the time, effort, fees?"

But to be clear, just modifying something does not effect the entire car warranty. AFAIK, its only if what you did effects something else on the car (e.g. do something to the brakes and for some strange reason a suspension part fails, its on your dime. That has nothing to do with the engine).

This has been discussed thousands of times all over the Internet. MM is NOT a panacea. Its does not magically fix anything. It was intended, AFAIK, to allow consumers to not be forced to buy OEM parts (e.g., by a FRAM filter vice the OEM filter). I've known people who went through it and the bottom line was similar to post #9 . The car makers pockets are very deep. Are your pockets deeper? Do some research and find some cases where the consumers win. They exist, but is the cost and aggravation worth it?

BTW, there are "mod" friendly dealers. They WILL modify your Porsche. Service departments make money. Its just work. You pay them. You get what you want. They get money. Something breaks. You pay them. They get money. Of course they will service it. They put the parts on. Whether they get money from you, or PCNA, what does it matter? Whether or not the car will be CPO'd is a different question. I think most people put it back to stock.

IANAL, So two things to be wary of. First, MM "could" help you. But at what cost? Second, of course there are dealers that want to make money. You give them money, they do what you asked. There are many dealers.

Caveat emptor. YMMV. :)
 
#35 ·
The answers are in the warranty book that came with your car. For example, the 2019 version, New Car Limited Warranty & Customer Information Model Year 2019

"This Warranty Does Not Cover:

... use of non-PCNA distributed parts. ...
Dealer-installed accessories not distributed by PCNA ...
Modifications not authorized by PCNA"

That sound very specific. Was the wheel a PCNA distributed part or authorized by PCNA? No? Then you have your answer. Its all in your manual.
 
#34 ·
Interesting old thread --

One mans's opinion -- If one is worried about warranty then leave the car stock .

A person loses money if :

1) If he trades it and can't be CPO'd
2) if the car breaks related to any modifications
3) If selling private and buyers walk because they lack the same taste in mods , or they are nervous about the car's wear , or if they simply want to mod it themselves to their taste , or if they worry about warranty just like some here are .


On the flip side hand .. Who's name is on the car's title ? Does it say Porsche or does it say the OWNER's name ? So what if a warranty is voided ? So what if one can lose money? So what if he wants to enjoy the car as long as his insurance and laws in his region permit it ? The owner simply has choices.

So what's my side on this "debate " .. NEUTRAL !

Your car .. Your decision.
 
#37 ·
Clearly if an aftermarket wheel fails, PCNA is not going to cover an aftermarket wheel under warranty.

Bur are there scenarios where the failure of an aftermarket wheel or a defective wheel could damage your brakes or suspension? Not very likely, but you also can't say that it's completely impossible.

Is it possible that PCNA could try to use the presence of aftermarket wheels as an excuse for not covering some kind of brake or suspension repair? Not impossible, although I would say highly unlikely.

If it were up to me I would not hesitate to buy a good set of aftermarket wheels, but you can't really say that there is absolutely zero risk.
 
#40 ·
I'm sure the look on my face said it all when I got the invoice for my 20,000 mile check on my Macan. The 10,000 mile check was complimentary (or was it) so I had no idea what to expect. I have been reading about Porsche owners doing their own maintenance, I am not able to do that, but why can't I take my Macan else where to save some $$$. Would this void my warranty?
 
#41 ·
Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right thread. Just read above and you will have you answer...and likely more on the subject than you wanted :giggle:
 
#43 ·
My dealer has told me my upcoming routine 30.000 km oil change on my 2017 Macan Turbo involves more than just an oil change and will cost about $2500. I’ve researched it and other high end specialty but non-Porsche shops and found one that is highly rated. It will cost about half what Porsche have quoted.
When I bought my Macan, Porsche gave me an extra 2-years unlimited kilometres warrantee that lasts until August 2024. My question is this: will getting this service outside of Porsche void my warrantee in any way regardless of how good and competent the non-Porsche service facility is? If so I’ll spend the extra at Porsche. But of course I’d prefer to get all the work done for the lower amount. Your advice and experience in this area are appreciated.
 
#44 ·
No. It will not void your warranty. KEEP YOUR RECEIPTS. Collect them. Hole punch them. And put them in a binder. Reason: imagine wanting to buy a vehicle and the owner had a binder showing all work ever done to it. You think it would help you make a more informed decision? I'd venture the answer would be 'yes'.

But, this is more for you too. No matter where you go for repairs or maintenance, the mechanic can see whatever was done to the vehicle before he digs into repairing it.
 
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