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The long and involved process of upgrading my 2016 Macan S stereo system

155K views 1K replies 46 participants last post by  Will in Evergreen 
#1 · (Edited)
2016 Porsche Macan S - stealth SQ build
Howdy all,

I have a new vehicle and I'm back to my old addiction. I feel the need to gut this sucker and refine the stock audio system. Meet my latest project:
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It looks like there is ample room to place subs and amp(s) in the rear hatch:
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The hatch floor is recessed almost 2" below skid plates. This could come in handy for building a false floor:
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A reasonable amount of space under the hatch:
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Even more space with the 8" plastic factory sub removed:
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Unfortunately I don't believe this sucker is going to fit.
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Just too deep if I want to recess it. Also, the diameter is too big for a good fit.
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I'm thinking two 10" drivers or three 8" drivers would work well. More on that in a bit.

Props go out to phroenips for giving me some ideas and inspiration to work on this vehicle.

Ge0
 
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#699 ·
Subwoofer box glue... layers 4-8... Layer 9 (top) will be done after wiring and polyfil installation...

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Leaving with press overnight so that glue can fully cure.

Wired subwoofer... with appropriate terminals and quick connector, following your example. Ready to go in when I finish the box.

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f

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#707 ·
I was playing with the crossover frequency between AP4 and AP8. These speakers really like to cross over at around 400Hz.

More than 400Hz, sounds a little muffled... Less than 400Hz, sounds with too much treble. Not well balanced.

On the subwoofer box front, I installed the support today... couldn’t do much more, as I ran out of daylight really quick.

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#710 ·
Dyn only has one midrange in the current Esotar(2) line. The Esotar(2) 430.

There may be some older stuff floating around. I know that Volvo had OEM Dyn stuff in some of their cars which have different model numbers.
 
#716 ·
Wow, @ GeO and @ Santirx, you guys are really getting stuck into the 'build a better sub box' competition. I hope we get a chance to give points for degree of difficulty, artistic content, length of build, how well they float and how long they stay in the car before the next new idea comes along...! :unsure: :giggle:

On the home front with my 'build an amp into an PCM 4 Macan and they will cheer' job, I finally received my wiring adapter - the same one you have both used. I had a quick look for the champagne and caviar stains on the package, which I expected to see from it's first class seating transportation price, but was disappointed to find none...

My concerns on doing the build related to the change in wiring from the pre 17 model PCM 3 cars you have and my 2017 car - your cars have 32 pin connectors whereas mine has 38. Well, with the adapter in my hot little hand, I was then able to compare wiring diagram (we have access to the pre 17 factory diagram on the forum - but there are no post 17 wiring diagrams anywhere) and the connector in my car. The adapter for both pre and post 17 are the same external size/shape and only differ in the smaller top section (holdings pins 23-32), so if you extract the wiring from the adapter with a pin removal tool, the remaining Pins 1-22 (part) will fit into and lock onto the on car wiring connector. Wasn't that a great relief to find.🤗

Next stage, was to rip off the door skins and D pillar pieces in order to identify the pin to wire to speaker runs. This was to prove very revealing and slightly frustrating. In the post 17 Turbo models (and probably not the other models) the wiring set has all the 14 speakers individually wired back to the main connector - there are no parallel connections in the wiring. Yes, I did pause in thought after reading of your painful descriptions having to insert new wires in order to control those front tweeters! While doing the front doors, I got so distracted in tracing back the front tweeter connections and the joy of finding them to be separate from the mids, that I buttoned up the front left door skin only to find that I had forgotten to note the wiring set for the mid and had to do another part removal of the skin - lucky the connector is at the top of the door so I could skip the last step.

My pin chart was getting fully booked by now, so it was back to the wiring diagrams to fill in the missing microphone (two) and the single 'ring brake diagnosis' wire (interesting, it carries a 10.88 volt 'always on' reference voltage and looks to be tied to the TV system). So I now have the following discrete speaker options available:

Left Front Tweeter
Right Front Tweeter
Left Front Mid
Right Front Mid
Left Front Woofer
Right Front Woofer
Centre
Left Rear Tweeter, Mid, Woofer - + option to separate the Tweeter
Right Rear Tweeter, Mid, Woofer - + option to separate the Tweeter
Left Back Surround
Right Back Surround
Subwoofer

Now comes the important part where I need your feedback. With a 12 channel string available, do I go for the @GeO first principle and buy an eight channel amp plus a mono amp and leave the rear doors out? Do I go for the @Santirx and get an Audison APF 8.9 plus AP1D and put the rear doors in (but drop the extra 4)? Or do I take the wilder (full 12) option and look for either the Audison APF8.9 + AP4.9 + AP1D or a Helix VTwelve plus Toro MR2 (which looks to be unavailable)? On this last one, the Helix option looks marginally cheaper and takes up less space (but hey, nothings cheap at the 12 channel end!). Of course, on the top of the stack is a NAV-TV MOST 150, otherwise the whole thing won't work.

I can go ahead and chase the NAV-TV MOST 150 (which looks to be the world's only hope and hence is suggested by the Audiotec Fischer folk at Helix). Once I digest your comments and make a decision, it might be a trip to the top end hi-fi shop where they have little rooms set aside for each brand, crammed with beautiful wooden speaker boxes, comfy chairs and all the well mannered and highly fancied amps that glow blue in the half light - these are dangerous paths, one can be seduced by the blue lights and that ethereal glow of valves, before finally escaping lighter for the financial loss and with something new tucked under the arm ... :oops:
 
#719 ·
Wow, @ GeO and @ Santirx, you guys are really getting stuck into the 'build a better sub box' competition. I hope we get a chance to give points for degree of difficulty, artistic content, length of build, how well they float and how long they stay in the car before the next new idea comes along...! :unsure: :giggle:

On the home front with my 'build an amp into an PCM 4 Macan and they will cheer' job, I finally received my wiring adapter - the same one you have both used. I had a quick look for the champagne and caviar stains on the package, which I expected to see from it's first class seating transportation price, but was disappointed to find none...

My concerns on doing the build related to the change in wiring from the pre 17 model PCM 3 cars you have and my 2017 car - your cars have 32 pin connectors whereas mine has 38. Well, with the adapter in my hot little hand, I was then able to compare wiring diagram (we have access to the pre 17 factory diagram on the forum - but there are no post 17 wiring diagrams anywhere) and the connector in my car. The adapter for both pre and post 17 are the same external size/shape and only differ in the smaller top section (holdings pins 23-32), so if you extract the wiring from the adapter with a pin removal tool, the remaining Pins 1-22 (part) will fit into and lock onto the on car wiring connector. Wasn't that a great relief to find.[emoji847]

Next stage, was to rip off the door skins and D pillar pieces in order to identify the pin to wire to speaker runs. This was to prove very revealing and slightly frustrating. In the post 17 Turbo models (and probably not the other models) the wiring set has all the 14 speakers individually wired back to the main connector - there are no parallel connections in the wiring. Yes, I did pause in thought after reading of your painful descriptions having to insert new wires in order to control those front tweeters! While doing the front doors, I got so distracted in tracing back the front tweeter connections and the joy of finding them to be separate from the mids, that I buttoned up the front left door skin only to find that I had forgotten to note the wiring set for the mid and had to do another part removal of the skin - lucky the connector is at the top of the door so I could skip the last step.

My pin chart was getting fully booked by now, so it was back to the wiring diagrams to fill in the missing microphone (two) and the single 'ring brake diagnosis' wire (interesting, it carries a 10.88 volt 'always on' reference voltage and looks to be tied to the TV system). So I now have the following discrete speaker options available:

Left Front Tweeter
Right Front Tweeter
Left Front Mid
Right Front Mid
Left Front Woofer
Right Front Woofer
Centre
Left Rear Tweeter, Mid, Woofer - + option to separate the Tweeter
Right Rear Tweeter, Mid, Woofer - + option to separate the Tweeter
Left Back Surround
Right Back Surround
Subwoofer

Now comes the important part where I need your feedback. With a 12 channel string available, do I go for the @GeO first principle and buy an eight channel amp plus a mono amp and leave the rear doors out? Do I go for the @Santirx and get an Audison APF 8.9 plus AP1D and put the rear doors in (but drop the extra 4)? Or do I take the wilder (full 12) option and look for either the Audison APF8.9 + AP4.9 + AP1D or a Helix VTwelve plus Toro MR2 (which looks to be unavailable)? On this last one, the Helix option looks marginally cheaper and takes up less space (but hey, nothings cheap at the 12 channel end!). Of course, on the top of the stack is a NAV-TV MOST 150, otherwise the whole thing won't work.

I can go ahead and chase the NAV-TV MOST 150 (which looks to be the world's only hope and hence is suggested by the Audiotec Fischer folk at Helix). Once I digest your comments and make a decision, it might be a trip to the top end hi-fi shop where they have little rooms set aside for each brand, crammed with beautiful wooden speaker boxes, comfy chairs and all the well mannered and highly fancied amps that glow blue in the half light - these are dangerous paths, one can be seduced by the blue lights and that ethereal glow of valves, before finally escaping lighter for the financial loss and with something new tucked under the arm ... :oops:
@Gra, that’s a nice find. I thought only Burmester had 12 channels, but it seems that Bose went all out on 17+ models. Good for you!

If you want to install a 12 active channel system, do not go with Audison. To install what you propose, you will need two NAV150 modules, one feeding the F8.9 + AP1D, and the other feeding the AP4D. No way to connect the AP4D to the F8.9. You can connect the AP4D with the AP5.9, but that will get you back to 9 channels. It gets messy with the amount of equipment, power wiring, etc... to three different amplifiers plus two NAV150’s.

Better you go with the Helix Twelve, and a single NAV150. Probably the less expensive, and cleaner route...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#725 ·
Thanks @ Santirx and @GeO for your comments, I was thinking it would likely be the Helix V Twelve and this was also suggested by @Beerinmacan (whose trying the PCM 4 upgrade too) earlier. Of course, I was not thinking of that issue Santirx said about needing two MOST 150 interface adapters in order to work an Audison solution - :oops:.

Next move is to get to sale stage with NAV -TV, I have it in the shopping basket but they don't like my credit card for some reason ...:mad:. I will go with the Helix V Twelve and probably an Audison AP1D for the Sub as the Toro MR2 seems to be a new species of Dodo!
 
#726 ·
Don't get caught up on a specific subwoofer amplifier. This should be the least of your concerns. Just buy something that is easily accessible to you locally at a reasonable cost and is in a small enough form factor to fit in your vehicle.

Don't spend $200 to import a $80 budget oriented Toro subwoofer amplifier. If for some reason the Toro amplifier is your best bet then don't fear. They will be in stock again soon.

I know buying a MOST network adapter is expensive and a hard pill to swallow. They are that expensive because a lot of R&D is involved in hacking the buss encryption and then spreading those costs between a few unit sales. However, it is the cleanest / most reliable means to grab your systems audio stream.

Ge0
 
#727 ·
The Audison AP4’s are out of midrange duty... the JL C5-400cm are in.

Preliminary testing is very promising. I think that the Audison was distorting a little bit. The JL are very crisp and clear when compared to the Audison.

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Adapters, courtesy of @Draper. Excellent fit!

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I also found some residual rattling in both front door panels. Even as I covered a lot of area in the panel with deadening. I now basically covered the full panel with deadening, probably 90% covered. Rattling was gone.

When I finish the sub box, I’ll re-tune with REW.
 
#729 ·
The Audison AP4’s are out of midrange duty... the JL C5-400cm are in.

Preliminary testing is very promising. I think that the Audison was distorting a little bit. The JL are very crisp and clear when compared to the Audison.

View attachment 235039

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Adapters, courtesy of @Draper. Excellent fit!

View attachment 235044

I also found some residual rattling in both front door panels. Even as I covered a lot of area in the panel with deadening. I now basically covered the full panel with deadening, probably 90% covered. Rattling was gone.

When I finish the sub box, I’ll re-tune with REW.
A few things...

1. The JL C5-400cm midrange set is noticeably better than the Audison AP4. Given Audison AP4 specs, I’m not surprised. As I mentioned before, it seems the AP4s were distorting a little bit at higher frequencies. Audio coming from the JL’s is clearer and more defined at those higher frequencies, and it blends better with the Midbass and tweeter. At least that is what my ears tell me.

2. Yesterday, after installing the door panels back, and while getting all my tools back into my toolbox, I noticed that I was missing an Allen wrench...[emoji2957]. It was too late yesterday to open the panel again, so I decided to take it apart during the morning. There it was... lose around the midbass area. I left the tool inside the patient....[emoji16].

In any case, I think the JL’s will stay in. The AP4’s are not bad, but I think that they fall behind other speakers I have. They are more like an entry level (and the JL’s are, I think, somewhere above entry level).

Next, I’m going to take a closer look at the Center channel. Audio is fine, but would like to check with another speaker with better specs to see if I can develop a basis of comparison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#737 ·
Such a stickler for detail. You zip tied your wire run inside your speaker box 😁. You lucked out with the weather. It's been gloomy and rainy here the last few days. You can tell the days are getting shorter dur to the angle of the shadows in your photographs. Better hurry!!!

Ge0
 
#739 ·
On a side note. My bass is now so deep and loud with my new sub enclosure that I find myself being one of those annoying teenagers rolling through the neighborhood going BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM. I'm in my mid 50's. Folk's do a double take :). The good thing is I don't give a sh!t :).

Ge0
 
#741 ·
Screw inserts installed:
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Sub installed:
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Temporary wire connection completed and sub installed in the car. BTW... fit was excellent...
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Initial testing was very... very... very... good. I had to adjust the gain a little bit (increased gain).

Also, for the older sub, I had the subsonic filter set at 35Hz. Any lower would create distortion, lost definition and would hurt my ears.

For this one, I set the subsonic filter at 20Hz @24dB/Oct and yet the definition was great. I’m amazed at the sound of the sub notes with this new box.

So... this is a success. Now, some tidy up on exterior details.

Very Happy!!!! :D(y)
 
#742 ·
So... it turns out that the darn lid handle was hitting the box a little bit... maybe a millimeter or so... I decided to follow your exact procedure and added 1/4” shims to the trunk floor... barely noticeable, but now the handle cleared the box... a bit more space below.

Another example of good ideas shared through this forum, so that we don’t have to reinvent the wheel.

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#746 ·
So... it turns out that the darn lid handle was hitting the box a little bit... maybe a millimeter or so... I decided to follow your exact procedure and added 1/4” shims to the trunk floor... barely noticeable, but now the handle cleared the box... a bit more space below.
Couldn't you just remove a bit from the surface of the box where the lid hit it?
 
#751 ·
Yeah. This pesky guy Santirx keeps copying my work and making improvements. It's getting kind of annoying...



LOL!!! I'm just joking. Santirx is an animal when it comes to fabrication skills. He's given me plenty of pointers. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Ge0
 
#754 ·
I was able today to properly test my new sub during my commute. Granted, I have not done proper setup with REW, only some initial raw “ear” tuning.

The dynamics of the bass notes are now different, more defined, just better. It doesn’t hurt my ears, I can actually hear the low notes without distortion and muddiness.

Next step is to tune it with REW.

The new JL midrange speakers are performing superb. They are polypropylene cone, which I read is a great material for midrange. I don’t think I’ll be playing with midrange anymore, all set.

Now, I want to play with the center. I’m not liking the Voce 3.0 as much for the center, although I set the slope to 12dB/Oct on both sides of the band and that seems to have smoothen out the sound with good transition.

I was thinking of buying the Audiofrog GB25 or GS25 for wider range. Ended up buying an additional set of Audison AP2 to test as center in OEM location. I may also try the Audiofrog later.

Again, as I said previously, I want to have the best speakers possible (considering value for cost) at midrange and center location.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#758 · (Edited)
OK Santirx. Phroenips just set the bar. I'm way behind. You have a chance:
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Put on your Kung Foo fabrication skills and top this one off. Your sub box has a chance :)

Ge0
Oh... I love that!! I didn’t even think about the Porsche logo, but, yeah... it looks great. It actually looks like a gigantic brake caliper, trying to stop the wheel from the outside. Looks so cool!

I have to rethink my plan now... [emoji6]

@phroenips, Great job man!! Very creative. I hope you don’t mind, but I think I’m going to shamelessly steal your idea...[emoji846].... I may change a thing here and there so that it looks a little different though...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#761 ·
Sub box sanding completed...

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Sunny and hot today. Had to open my tent (normally used during Summer softball tournaments...🙂). Good day to paint, but I don’t have the plan completed yet... nor the supplies. Hoping for another weird hot day soon... if not, painting will have to wait until next year...
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#763 ·
So, you had to mill out a section in your sub box even after raising your floor. Hmm. Should have raised it another 1/4". Now your open canvas to paint a Porsche logo on has an obstruction.

Oh crap. Just kidding. Excellent craftsmanship.

Ge0
 
#768 · (Edited)
@Ge0, even though I had EQ'd my front mid/tweeters with frequencies >5KHz significantly low, I was still noticing loud high frequencies. My wife noticed it too, today. I had a High-Pass filter set at >400Hz. I decided to change the mid/tweeter to a Band-Pass filter with HP set at 400 Hz (24dB/Oct) and the LP set at 20KHz (12dB/Oct). With this, gain started to decrease at around 5KHz to 20KHz (would decrease about 5dB at 20KHz).

I tested with REW, and I did have to adjust equalization a little bit from 5KHz to 20KHz, but it actually worked very well. The annoying high frequencies went away, and now there is just a pleasant sound coming from the mid/tweeter combination. The AV1.1 are loud.

I also adjusted the 400Hz crossover (which was dipping significantly after I change that crossover point). Also, EQ'd the new subwoofer.

This is the latest REW graph. This was a quick 15 minute adjustment with REW. Obviously I need to spend more time, but sound is great so far. Curve is within 3 - 4dB from Harman. Bass is just fantastic!

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Now I need to resolve the center channel. Today I moved the Audison AV3.0 to surround duty and moved the Hertz MP70.3 back to Center. However, I bought the Audiofrog GB25 to test at center (will get it this Tuesday). If that doesn't work well, I'll exchange for the JL C7-350. Both have great reviews.
 
#771 ·
You need to be careful when measuring high frequency response. The wavelengths get very small. Moving your microphone 1" between one measurement to another can produce different results. Obtaining repeatable results gets difficult from session to session unless you do some averaging. I'm sure you've seen the rig I built back on page 35:
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I take 5 measurements or more using the moving mic and then average them together. This seems strange but it produces accurate and repeatable results. You can also do something similar by sitting in the back seat while measuring up front and slowly waving the microphone around the headrest location. This helped me tame high frequency response very nicely.

As far as your center channel is concerned. You've been swapping a lot of drivers in and out :). You seem to like the tonality of the JL Audio midranges. If I were you I'd be inclined to try out the C7 3.5 as you suggested. This is strictly personal preference so you're going have to try some options :).

Ge0
 
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