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Discussion Starter #22
Not the same but similar. it surprised me to see two different box designs. It must cost a fortune to tool up a plastic housing of this size. I would think Porsche would make both audio suppliers use the same box design to save money. But nope. Each are unique. The Burm appears to be molded from some type of PPE whereas the Bose is more of a rigid ABS type plastic.
s-l1600.jpg
230875
 

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That is very surprising indeed. much better to go with a good aftermarket shallow mount sub and make your own box so you can make it rigid.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
We are all starting to see the mark-up game... We know the minor differences in drivers. What makes Burm that much more desirable.?

A little bit of system calibration separates them both...

Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #27
OK. time to check out the center channel situation. Mainly because it is easy to do


Start by pressing the lap clock towards the windshield (red arrow). This will lift the trim piece up enough for you to get your plastic trim removal tool under it (green arrow). But, just break it lose. Don't try to remove yet:



There are two J-hooks you will need to release before you can pull the vent panel out (red arrows). The trick to doing this is to leave the vent panel lowered so the J-hooks clear their locking point. Press away one side then lift that side slightly. Then do the other side. The vent assembly will then lift so you can do other goodies. This is the hardest part. Clear it and you are on your way.



The only thing holding you back now is to release the connector to the LAP clock. Just push in the retainer tab (red arrow) and pull the connector out. Once this is done you can set the vent assembly aside:



Now you have a clean view of the center channel speaker



You'll need to remove those torx bolts. But after that you are home free. I managed to get my Bosch cordless screw driver in there with the appropriate bit and still clear the windshield.



Again, press against the connector retention clip to release then loudspeaker. Easy peasy.

Looking inside the hole I see a somewhat sealed 1 liter enclosure formed by the A/C vents. This may be useful...



It looks like you can add a mid-range with up to a 3" cut-out into this hole. Also, depth does not seem to be any problem for such a driver.





At my photo limit per post...

Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #28
The Porsche Macan center channel is a 2.5" driver with a 3.5" oversized flange.








Here is what it looks like both sides



Extracting dimensions I can think of numerous aftermarket replacement drivers. For the time being I am considering the 4 ohm version of the ScanSpeak 10M. Keep following to see how this works.

Other aftermarket solutions by HAT, FROG, BRAX, and others would also work. But at their cost to performance ratio is unacceptable to me. I enjoy this hobby. But have a realistic budget to consider.

Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
I plan to use the same mid-range drivers for the center channel and doors. Here are a few of the early highly rated contenders that have me interested:
230912


230913


230914


230915


230917


I'm hoping to order the ScanSpeaks by the end of the week. I'll let you know how this turns out. The Eaton's are an 8 ohm driver. While very efficient they may not draw enough power from an amplifier channel to properly level match with the rest of the system. I may need to hold off on buying these until I have a higher power aftermarket amplifier in place.

Ge0
 

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Thank you and **** you at the same time. With all this great information I had no more excuses not to order new speakers. So my new Focals arrive tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Time to tear into the front doors. Let's see what we can do with these:

You need to start by removing a few trim pieces to access retention bolts.













Under these trim pieces you will find 3 Torx head screws you need to remove:







After you clear this just lift up on the door panel. It will slide up about 1 inch and then pull away.

You will need to make 3 disconnections. The door handle wire pull and two electrical connectors. I could not take pictures of this because it required two hands.

The door handle pull is a little tricky. You need to push two long white retaining clips outwards while pulling the white connector towards the back of the door.

The electrical connectors are easy. The first that plugs into the Continental Door Zone Module has a pink lever. Flip it to the left towards the front of the door and it will release.

The second electrical connector you need to pinch two tabs inwards while pulling the connector left towards the front of the door. The door panel is now free and you can set it aside.




Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Midbass investigation!!!






Midbass front depth is 1-3/4" or 1.75 for you engineers




The cut out diameter is 8"





Limiting rear depth is another 1-3/4" or 1.75 at the bottom before you hit the window-lift regulator. OUCH!!! Pretty shallow. My last vehicle gave me 3 inches.










Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Here is the midbass speaker. This has been typical Bose design for the last ten years. Too bad they had to cheapen it up so much. Midbass output is strong but very sloppy / muddy. They must hold a solid patent on this design. Putting $20 more dollars into this driver could make it awesome. Maybe why other aftermarket companies have not replicated it and improved it. Anyway, I can't work with this so I'm going to replace it.










The magnet extends 1/4" or 0.25" above the speaker frame



Main speaker frame depth is 1-3/4" or 1.75" above the mounting surface baffle. Just like mounted measurements showed.



Here is the cut-out template:






Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #34
My sub came in:



Not really impressed with the push terminal locations on a shallow mount sub. Hoping I won't have an interference fit one the recessing rings go in. I may need to rotate the sub but then the logo will not be aligned:



All I need is for my prefabbed recessing rings to come in so I can get started on my baffle:


I'll let you know how these rings work out. They were very fairly priced from a domestic seller on Amazon:

10" JL AUDIO TABBED FIBERGLASS SPEAKER JL 10TW3 SUBWOOFER RING SHALLOW SUB:Amazon:Car Electronics

Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Here is my idea for recess mounting a shallow mount sub in my cargo area sub-floor:





This is a functional idea if your sub had a good enough surface to flush mount to its top face. However, sub manufactures have went the way of making their stuff look cool with pretty design features vs. being functional. Meet the JL Audio 10TW3-D4:




They rounded the surface of the top plate to make it look cool. However, in the mean time they only left a 1/8" freaking lip to seal the sub against a baffle from the top side:


This is weak as **** and I don't trust it. So, what is one to do? Mount it like it is supposed to be mounted from the bottom side of the flange?



But, this solution is clunky and requires a mounting ring way larger than the diameter of the sub. In some cases this may work. But, in my case it prevents me from using this sub.




Even after loosening the spare tire and sliding it 2" forward there is still a tight press fit due to collisions. I can only think about how much this will rattle when put into use.



The recessed mounting option made the effective diameter of the 10TW3-D4 greater than the diameter of a 12" sub. This is a huge disappointment to me. I was geeked about using this sub but it just won't work for me.

Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #36
All other dimensions were in check even with the screwy wire terminal binding posts:





So, let's re-think things. Another sub option for me was the Sundown Audio SD4-10 D4.









It models just slightly better than the JL Audio 10TW3-D4 in my available space. But, the most important feature it has that made me switch was a flat front mounting bezel. No fancy plastic rounded flares. Now I can work with this.

Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Lets take a peek at some options:

Premise:

  • All drivers driven with 500W
  • All drivers mounted in a 2 cu/ft enclosure
  • All drivers are 4ohm DVC tied in parallel with the exception of the SBA driver which was 3ohm DVC tied in parallel
  • No high pass set on any driver. All lowpass set at 200Hz 24dB/octave
  • No expectations set for cost vs. perfomance
  • This is only a modeling program used to select the top few drivers I should evaluate. It by no means suggests sound quality of one driver over the other.
Sundown audio SD4 D4


The Sundown is the champ here by a small margin. It closely resembles the response of the JL 10TW3-D4 but a few dB higher with the given power. The Dayton sub is 1dB higher at 100Hz but that does not matter for most sub installs. It is equal to the Sundown at 70Hz and falls quickly from there. Interesting sub though. Hmm. I didn't mention the SBA sub because it fell behind in all simulations.

JL Audio 10TW3-D4


The 10TW3 is a great sub. But, it falls behind both the Sundown and Dayton by a very small 1 --> 2 dB margin. There is more to audio than raw numbers. One or two dB is hard to tell the difference. I'll need to revert to subjective data to say for sure.

Dayton Audio LS10-44



Much better performance than I expected out of a budget brand. Worthy of a closer look. By simulation in my vehicles environment it slightly beats the JL Audio 10TW3-D4


SB Acoustics shallow mount from Madisound


Not going much further with this driver. It came in last by a small margin. But, the Dayton is cheaper and clearly out performs it. Why would I select this?

In the end I already own a 10TW3-D4. I plan on ordering a Sundown SD4. Is it enough just to compare these two? Or should I grab a Dayton LS10-44 as well?

Ge0
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Okey doke. I have more drawings to share.

Here is the JL Audio 10TW3-D4 crammed into place



There are more than a few clearance issues here. Now, what if I shave off 1/4" off the OD of the mounting ring?



Now I can push the sub out from hard interference's. However, the mounting rings are pretty darn thin. Hmmm... Try to make it work or not?

Just for shits and giggles I drew up what the Dayton LS10-44 would look like. ****, I bet I could fit two of these in my sub floor.




Options and more options...

Ge0
 

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Any thoughts on what you going to put in the lower doors? I have my Focal 6.5s in there now but may move them to the rear doors and find larger fronts.
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
Any thoughts on what you going to put in the lower doors? I have my Focal 6.5s in there now but may move them to the rear doors and find larger fronts.
Yes, I have given this a little thought :)

These are what I really feel are going to make this system kick azz. Dynaudio MW182 10" midbasses. They will be here in a few weeks.
231135


In the mean time a friend on the car audio forums convinced me to try something a little less conventional. AudioFrog GS690 6x9's. I have these arriving tomorrow:
231136


Both solutions will fit with custom cut spacer rings. The Frogs are a tad bit higher sensitivity. The Dyn's have a much larger cone area. It should be an interesting comparison.

I don't plan on putting anything in my rear.

Wait, that statement did not come out right :)

Ge0
 
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