[Gruss Gott]

Why do journalisms do drag races in SUV's .

If I'm understanding your posts (now & previous), you don't like "hot hatches". You find SUV racing uncouth, pedestrian, provincial, and unseemly. Sport driving SUVs isn't your thing; you're sport-SUV intolerant. If it were up to you, nobody would EVER sport-glace at an SUV much less race one!

SUV sport drivers are heathens, trying to make a freighter fast-n-furious, living their lives one quarter-grocery-run at a time.

You know how proper racing should be done, and SUVs ain't it. You're a dialed-in sport driver who attacks the track, but SUV sport drivers don't, because they can't!

You're on the inside line, and SUV sport drivers can't even get off the starting line. 😆


Oddly, despite that, people will continue to race SUVs! 😲 Hey, I'm as surprised as you are, but it's true.

AND, despite your well grounded and knowledgeable opinion on SUV racing, people will continue to buy fast sport SUVs ... in increasing numbers!

And, because sport SUV consumers are increasing, journalists are going to do EVEN MORE drag races in them! Cause people watch that shiit. 🤪

It's raceman apostasy, but there it is. 🥵

 

[yrralis1]

If I'm understanding your posts (now & previous), you don't like "hot hatches". You find SUV racing uncouth, pedestrian, provincial, and unseemly. Sport driving SUVs isn't your thing; you're sport-SUV intolerant. If it were up to you, nobody would EVER sport-glace at an SUV much less race one!

SUV sport drivers are heathens, trying to make a freighter fast-n-furious, living their lives one quarter-grocery-run at a time.

You know how proper racing should be done, and SUVs ain't it. You're a dialed-in sport driver who attacks the track, but SUV sport drivers don't, because they can't!

You're on the inside line, and SUV sport drivers can't even get off the starting line. 😆


Oddly, despite that, people will continue to race SUVs! 😲 Hey, I'm as surprised as you are, but it's true.

AND, despite your well grounded and knowledgeable opinion on SUV racing, people will continue to buy fast sport SUVs ... in increasing numbers!

And, because sport SUV consumers are increasing, journalists are going to do EVEN MORE drag races in them! Cause people watch that shiit. 🤪

It's raceman apostasy, but there it is. 🥵

Your post is quite extreme . I don't feel that two ton SUV's are race cars any more than they are luxury passenger cars . Their biggest strength is versatility .

None of the vehicles are slow SUVs but just because one wins doesn't mean its better .

I don't think that most of these SUVs make it to a track . The biggest seller in the lineup is the base Macan .
Porsche does make race version 911 and 718 cars (Gt4 / Gt3 .. etc) . They even made a rally version Cayenne in 2008 called the Transsyberria . They have never done any of this with a Macan . In fact they are departing from ICE into EV .

I don't see any negative in liking an SUV for what it is .

 

[Gruss Gott]

I don't feel that two ton SUV's are race cars

Right, and I"m just helping you get the word word out!

For example, "sports car" has the word "sport" in it, meaning a car used for sport, i.e., racing. it's right in the name!

Now let's say someone wants to wants to race a base 911 ... well obvs a base 911 isn't a sports car because, to your point, most base 911s never make it to the track!

Anyway, these sport SUVs keeps showing up in higher numbers at sporting events, sales are growing, every faster versions are coming out with forged parts, sport tech like PTV and extra engine sumps ... and journos are covering them more & more like sportscars ... and Porsche's Macan was quickly overtaken by multiple competitors. (<2 years)

Obviously the word that these SUVs shouldn't be used for sport and racing in NOT getting out.

 

[yrralis1]

Right, and I"m just helping you get the word word out!

For example, "sports car" has the word "sport" in it, meaning a car used for sport, i.e., racing. it's right in the name!

Now let's say someone wants to wants to race a base 911 ... well obvs a base 911 isn't a sports car because, to your point, most base 911s never make it to the track!

Anyway, these sport SUVs keeps showing up in higher numbers at sporting events, sales are growing, every faster are coming out with forged parts, sport tech like PTV and extra engine sumps ... and journos are covering them more & more like sportscars ...

Obviously the word that these SUVs shouldn't be used for sport and racing in NOT getting out.

Base 911 and even cars like the 911 GTS are not the competitive track cars like the Gt3 . They are street and track capable and there's nothing wrong with using a 911 for basic daily things . If an auto journalist drag raced a base 911 against another car and it lost it doesn't make that 911 a bad car .

A lot of guys take their base 911 cars to PCA track days but these are leisure driving events . When Porsche wants to break a record at the ring they are not going to choose a base 911 to do it . However they are also not expecting a person to buy a Gt3RS to tool around in it in a city with potholes .

Each car has its virtue . Theres no need to force one to become the other .

 

[Gruss Gott]

Each car has its virtue . Theres no need to force one to become the other .

Oh, well sweet, because people are racing SUVs and more are doing it every day! It's a pretty hot and growing segment of the market, and Macan sales will depend on it!

Carbon fiber parts, track body kits, lowered suspension, all that stuff is turning into the quite the industry ...

It's why Porsche had to update the Macan only 2 years after a refresh and why they had to pull the Turbo: too slow. A power boost on the mid-tier Macan is a great way to bridge until the next platform ... helll even Porsche is making coupe Cayennes now!

The Macan has to keep up with the F-Pace SVR, the Range Rover Sport, the Stelvio Quadrifoglio, X3/4/5/6 M, et al ... all of the "Performance SUVs" and, yes, soon journo - beyond draggin them - will be track testing them.

Helll, even the kids are doing 1/2 mile drags now

 

[yrralis1]

Oh, well sweet, because people are racing SUVs and more are doing it every day! It's a pretty hot and growing segment of the market, and Macan sales will depend on it!

Carbon fiber parts, track body kits, lowered suspension, all that stuff is turning into the quite the industry ...

It's why Porsche had to update the Macan only 2 years after a refresh and why they had to pull the Turbo: too slow. A power boost on the mid-tier Macan is a great way to bridge until the next platform ... helll even Porsche is making coupe Cayennes now!

The Macan has to keep up with the F-Pace SVR, the Range Rover Sport, the Stelvio Quadrifoglio, X3/4/5/6 M, et al ... all of the "Performance SUVs" and, yes, soon journo - beyond draggin them - will be track testing them.

Helll, even the kids are doing 1/2 mile drags now

Lets rewind back to 2014 when the first gen Macan Turbo was launched and became the benchmark just like many other Porsches. Suddenly everyone saw this compact SUV segment and competition set in . They want to beat the car at something so it may as well be a 1/4 mile . So what ? Now if these where two muscle cars competing in the 1/4 then its a big deal but an SUV is much more than that .

Not everyone buys these cars to break records . Sure its nice to watch a quick video for entertainment and many of the viewers dont even have a Macan or competing vehicle . They are just watching car videos .

This is not a big deal . Its not personal that I view an SUV as an SUV.

As fir the Cayenne coupe . It still has 4 doors and is an SUV . It's just a sleeker version of the standard Cayenne .

 

[Masscan]

Further, Porsche's top-spec Turbo is just too slow compared to the X3M / X5M, et al to be called the "turbo". These videos don't help - a Porsche can't be the slow dog compared to ALL of the competition....

Exactly. I'd be pissed if I spent Turbo money just so I could be slower on the street than less expensive ICE SUVs. I would never buy a BMW X3M/X4M comp since it doesn't have air suspension.

The new M3 when it's released with xDrive....well that's a whole different story.

 

[grim]

@Gruss Gott , @yrralis1 is doing fine defending the “SUV is a SUV and not a race car”. I'm not sure why you've mocked his opinion. I don't understand if you understand Porsche Motorsport, not that I really understand. Have you bought a new Porsche? Do you follow Porsche Motorsport?

I guess with the Turbo losing drags to the X3M & X5M they had to do something ... Bottom line is, the .2 refresh in their cashcow just didn't go far enough and the competition lapped them.

The 2020 cashcow was the Cayenne, not the Macan. Unlike Rolex SA, PAG books are open. Download the 2020 Annual Report. Any ideas you have from America, or CA, matter little. China is the primary market and has been for five or so years. The Cayenne is the big seller, not the Macan. The USA has become more of a bit player in a world now dominated by EU emission regulations and China vehicle demands.

I think you’re making an assumption about PAG, and its auto buyers, that are invalid. Tell me once in the decade when PAG has reacted to a competitor rather than the other way around. Some receipts. For 9 years people BEGGED, they absolutely begged, Porsche to give the Cayman a proper engine. Cheaper Corvettes walked all over it and the Cayman cost MORE!!! 😢 Nothing happened, until what happened? Here is the receipt.

"Porsche Motorsport boss Hartmut Kristen has revealed that the German manufacturer has tested a racing version of its Cayman coupe. ... "Not everyone wants 600bhp, lots of downforce and a car costing €500,000," Kristen told AUTOSPORT."

Simply, it wasn't a reaction to Corvettes, but money. The cost of racing in GT3 was too much, so race in GT4, hence the Clubsport.

How about the 911? From Doug DeMuro Sorry, Automakers: You’ll Never Beat the Porsche 911 Complaints that a new Jaguar is faster. nobody cares.

Who is the Macan target audience? Is it some kids watching YouTube Drag Videos? Where are the most Macans sold? NOT the USA. Did you know that China INCREASED imported Porsches in 2020 vs 2019 by 3%? Whats going on there when the rest of the world dived? Cayennes increased 10%! 28710 Macans compared to USA 18,631 in the USA. Who do you think PAG is going to care about more, some Kids watching YouTube or the Chinese market? How about Europe? Whats the focus. 31% were Taycan, Cayennes outsold Macans 2:1. They sold MORE 911 in N. Europe than Macans. How can that be, the complete opposite of the USA.

China drives the Macan marketplace, not some videos for the US on youtube.

Where was the 95B.2 introduced? China
Who buys the most Macans, by far, China
Who has bought 29% of all Macans produced? China
Whats the Average age of a pcar owner in China per CEO Porsche China? 36? The USA?
🤔 52

The point of this is when you look at the market, you need to look at the ENTIRE market, not your location, not some youtube videos, and certainly not just the USA.

Whats the target audience, beside the Chinese? From Porsche PAG targeted DINKS and empty nesters for the Macan. Reading this forum you'd think this crazy but most owners never frequent a forum. The "enthusiasts" are here, a small fraction. Lets not forget women too from Bloomberg Porsche Builds Macan Crossover to Win Over Women

Oddly, despite that, people will continue to race SUVs!

Name one sanctioning body for SUV racing, not autocrossing. I read some off road SUV racing is coming for EVs. Find ONE official Ring lap time from Porsche for a Macan. I assume you know that the Weissach engineering designs and builds the homogolation cars for racing. You see any Macans in there? Why not? From AP. Porsche: We Don’t Do any GT SUVs ever

“The credibility of the GT car is based on direct bloodline to the race cars … A customer buying a GT3 knows there is a derivative that’s on track every other weekend in a different race series. If we were to enter the Dakar rally with a Macan …. something we have no plans to do—then maybe the Motorsport department would develop that car and bring it to the race. But to just use a badge … to make it more attractive, for me, would not be credible"

Perhaps you mean somebody heading to the local dragstrips or street racing? Whats the percentage of those folks among the Macan population? Look at the "entire picture", the worldwide picture, and not some youtube videos nor local reactions. Its the entire thing that matters, along with the history of Porsche motorsports and how Porsche "evolves" engineering, and not "revolutionizes". If you look at the entire picture, your POV might change.

You want to know who watches those youtube videos vs who actually buys cars? Take a look at the breakout of TTAC viewership vs the cars they drive

A Comprehensive Look At What TTAC Readers Drive, In Three Charts - The Truth About Cars

They drive Hondas, Toyota, Subarus, and Fords. Do they dream of owning Ferraris and Porsches and MB? Maybe, but thats not reality. You might find the exact same thing with your youtube videos.

From history, your assumption that the majority of the buying publics cares about SUV drag races might be more "proof by assertion" whereas there exists open books, a history of the evolution of Porsche production models, a history of Porsche motorsports, and the entire history of the slow, plodding evolution as each generation generally runs 8 years.

And SUV racing is not part of it.

 

[slw23]

Exactly. I'd be pissed if I spent Turbo money just so I could be slower on the street than less expensive ICE SUVs.

Are you upset now that your GTS is slower than less expensive ICE SUVs on the street? There will always be something newer, faster, or "better." It's a constant cycle with pretty much every vehicle. I'm not sure why anyone would be pissed. And if they are, perhaps they should channel that energy into something that really is a problem.

 

[grim]

I forgot that @trusted has done some homework on trim levels for Macans sold in the USA. Credit to @trusted. I have zero reason to believe these numbers are false.

Macan USA sales #s by trim level

These are PCNA numbers only. I cannot grantee 100% accuracy, but should be very close at a minimum. I came across these when I "researched" ordered 718 Spyder options for a spreadsheet I created for my curiousity. Macan sales by trim level broken down by model year: MY 2015 MY 2016 MY 2017 MY...

www.macanforum.com

So lets see. Forgetting for now that the US is a secondary Macan market, 91% of all Macans in 2020 were base or S. Wow. MY19 is difficult to assess because of the lack of GTS and Turbos but looking at the progression in time from the introduction of the base until MY20, MY21 not final:

we see the base sales increasing from 40% to 51% to 60%.
we see GTS sales decreasing from 20% to 12% to 5%
Turbos have fallen off a cliff from 17% in MY15, with only the S and Turbo available to 4% in MY20

Where was the Base Macan introduced in 2014? China? and UK, not the US until 2016 for MY17?
Where was the 95B.2 Base Macan introduced? China

Thinking that the general Macan buyer cares a bit about some YT drag races is not reflected in actual sales. If anything, there are far fewer sales of the higher trim levels. Repeating what I remarked there:

"DO NOT believe what you see in this forum as typical. Its FAR from typical and, in fact, atypical. Anything you read in this forum is a minority of actual owners and the options they buy."

The public audience for Macans is far different than owners you see in a car forum. Many, many posts in this forum talk about "GTS". In reality, the sales are weak. Once the base was introduced in 2016, I presume as a MY17 car, the numbers keep falling. MY21 numbers are not finalized. Even if the numbers remain at 84% for base and S, that solidifies that the Macan is NOT a performance oriented vehicle.

While in this forum, the discussion is about AS, PTV+, lowered modules, Cobb, that is NOT reflective in overall sales. Its a minority in a small group of owners, enthusiasts.

 

[[email protected]>@W]

Based on the sales numbers provided above, it would seem clear that price is the key factor driving Macan sales. And the Base
model has the lowest price!

Surprising to me is the 17% figure for Turbo Macans in 2015 - when only it and the S were on offer.

As can be seen above, the GTS has followed the Turbo off the sales cliff and both ended up in the low single digit percentages of Macan sales.
Again, pricing is a major factor. The GTS took away sales from the Turbo and, in turn, its sales were reduced by the Base variants.

Let us not forget, China is the #1 Porsche market now, and has been for some time (no longer is it the US).


I don't know that I would agree that the Macan is not a performance oriented vehicle. It would seem more likely that the majority of Macan buyers
are less interested in the higher performing Macan models as evidenced by the overwhelming percentages of Base and S sales. Only enthusiasts,
a small subset, are willing to spend the kind of money it takes to buy GTS and Turbo models.


This is further reinforced by Porsche's move to rebadge the Macan models for the 2023 MY, bumping the S and GTS models and dropping the Turbo altogether.
The S will become what was the GTS, and the GTS will become what was the Turbo.

Model designation inflation?


I would wonder what sort of model designation games are in store for the plethora of 911 variants?

 

[grim]

Based on the sales numbers provided above, it would seem clear that price is the key factor driving Macan sales. And the Base model has the lowest price! As can be seen above, the GTS has followed the Turbo off the sales cliff and both ended up in the low single digit percentages of Macan sales. Again, pricing is a major factor. The GTS took away sales from the Turbo and, in turn, its sales were reduced by the Base variants.


I don't know that I would agree that the Macan is not a performance oriented vehicle.

My bad. I did not explain it further. The discussion had migrated to people won't buy Macans because of some YT videos and other marques. It implies people are influenced in some manner. Macans are targeted at DINKs and empty nesters. This forum is an anomaly not representative of the 350,000 Macans sold and certainly not representative of the 100,000 sold in China alone. Yet one would think, we few represent the world. We do not.

What I was trying to say was not "Even if the numbers remain at 84% for base and S, that solidifies that the Macan is NOT a performance oriented vehicle." but

"Even if the numbers remain at 84% for base and S, that solidifies that Macan Buyers are NOT focused on buying performance."

And I have the historical receipts to show that for the 911, they are. PCNA used to publish the trim level sales for all its vehicles sold in press releases. So I pulled some. Since its by months, we want to look at December.

2005 sales Numbers below are all variations of the 997, coupe, cabriolet, and C4 Coupe and Cabriolet. Thats 8 trim levels

3873 base 911 vs 4723 S

You can look at some others on your own. You will see a pattern. The "S" ALWAYS outsells the base car, regardless of variant like C2 vs C4. Even the Targa S outsells the base Targa. The Cayenne Turbo S outsells the Cayenne Turbo

2006 sales https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/03/032836.html

Even in the middle of the 2008 Recession, the S always outsells the base car

https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2010/01/05/460581.html

But notice the base Boxster outsold the S. 🤔 But NOT the Cayenne

If you think this trend anomalous, look at 2004 https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/01/04/313701.html

911 Turbo Cabriolet 1378. Base 911? 1056

We might conclude that 911 buyers don't care about money or they care more about performance than Macan CUV buyers.

This is further reinforced by Porsche's move to rebadge the Macan models for the 2023 MY, bumping the S and GTS models and dropping the Turbo altogether. The S will become what was the GTS, and the GTS will become what was the Turbo. Model designation inflation?

In Nov, 2013 with the introduction of the Macan Turbo, people thought 🤔. Wait a sec. The 911 "turbo" meant something. Carreras were NA Flat 6. 911 Turbos were "TURBOCHARGED flat 6. But BOTH Macan models were turbocharged. This is silly. At that point the "trim" levels no longer had intrinsic meaning and became symbolic. Now we have the Taycan Turbo. It means nothing.

 

[Masscan]

Are you upset now that your GTS is slower than less expensive ICE SUVs on the street?

Not at all because at the time I purchased my 2020 GTS, it was not the top dog for the Macan line.

Now will what I believe is still a the lack of power for the 2022 Macan GTS since it's now the top dog influence my next vehicle purchase, **** right it will. The BMW M3 xDrive with over 500 hp is looking better and better.

 

[yrralis1]

My bad. I did not explain it further. The discussion had migrated to people won't buy Macans because of some YT videos and other marques. It implies people are influenced in some manner. Macans are targeted at DINKs and empty nesters. This forum is an anomaly not representative of the 350,000 Macans sold and certainly not representative of the 100,000 sold in China alone. Yet one would think, we few represent the world. We do not.

What I was trying to say was not "Even if the numbers remain at 84% for base and S, that solidifies that the Macan is NOT a performance oriented vehicle." but

"Even if the numbers remain at 84% for base and S, that solidifies that Macan Buyers are NOT focused on buying performance."

And I have the historical receipts to show that for the 911, they are. PCNA used to publish the trim level sales for all its vehicles sold in press releases. So I pulled some. Since its by months, we want to look at December.

2005 sales Numbers below are all variations of the 997, coupe, cabriolet, and C4 Coupe and Cabriolet. Thats 8 trim levels

3873 base 911 vs 4723 S

You can look at some others on your own. You will see a pattern. The "S" ALWAYS outsells the base car, regardless of variant like C2 vs C4. Even the Targa S outsells the base Targa. The Cayenne Turbo S outsells the Cayenne Turbo

2006 sales https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/03/032836.html

Even in the middle of the 2008 Recession, the S always outsells the base car

https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2010/01/05/460581.html

But notice the base Boxster outsold the S. 🤔 But NOT the Cayenne

If you think this trend anomalous, look at 2004 https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/01/04/313701.html

911 Turbo Cabriolet 1378. Base 911? 1056

We might conclude that 911 buyers don't care about money or they care more about performance than Macan CUV buyers.



In Nov, 2013 with the introduction of the Macan Turbo, people thought 🤔. Wait a sec. The 911 "turbo" meant something. Carreras were NA Flat 6. 911 Turbos were "TURBOCHARGED flat 6. But BOTH Macan models were turbocharged. This is silly. At that point the "trim" levels no longer had intrinsic meaning and became symbolic. Now we have the Taycan Turbo. It means nothing.

With the NA 997 .2 and .2 the difference between base and S were a little different than when Porsche went all turbo . With the turbo model cars a lot of folks missed the NA so much that they felt that the smaller turbo and slower base 911 still felt more like an NA car . That gave the base car an appeal that the NA 997 cars didn't have to face .

As I put my deposit today I saw a guy today taking delivery of his first Porsche. It was a base 992 that he ordered . He hardly knew anything about the car . He just knew that his kid graduated college and he wanted this. I told him a little about the car . I expressed to him that even after all the 911's I have bought and as wrestled with todays choice that I still hold a special place in my heart for the base car too .

Under the header of why a person bought a car ..his was a new one . He even had considered a cab . He didn't buy the car to race . He didn't buy it to show off. He bought it because he felt finally free .

 

[slw23]

Not at all because at the time I purchased my 2020 GTS, it was not the top dog for the Macan line.

Now will what I believe is still a the lack of power for the 2022 Macan GTS since it's now the top dog influence my next vehicle purchase, **** right it will. The BMW M3 xDrive with over 500 hp is looking better and better.

Top dog or not, there will always be something faster and especially when it comes to Porsche, cheaper and/or better value for the money. If that would piss someone off, they probably shouldn’t buy a Porsche. And if you do end up moving to BMW, enjoy it - you’ve referenced it a couple times. They are very nice as well, but apples and oranges compared to your GTS IMO.

 

[yrralis1]

Not at all because at the time I purchased my 2020 GTS, it was not the top dog for the Macan line.

Now will what I believe is still a the lack of power for the 2022 Macan GTS since it's now the top dog influence my next vehicle purchase, **** right it will. The BMW M3 xDrive with over 500 hp is looking better and better.

Porsche wants buyers to chase the labels . I don't think Porsche expected the Macan to be noted for drag racing and there is so much more to an SUV than this type of thing . Porsche does get named in the fastest car categories .

Whether its skill. performance and speed .. 4 cars out of the top 10. Look who is number 1 Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - FastestLaps.com

0-60 seems to be this big deal marketing measure .. Porsche is there too ... The Quickest Cars of the Decade

BMW and Alfa aren't close to this . Porsche is just not trying to do this with an SUV . I think the others do it just to say "see I can beat the Porsche " . The thing is Porsche isn't trying . When they do try .. they either win or make themselves very known.

 

[.101354]

While drag racing is racing, I don’t know of anyone that is actually participating in a given drag racing class with a Macan? Likewise I don’t know of anyone that is actually road racing a Macan. Yes, a fair amount of owners put their Macon’s on the track to have fun and maybe explore its limitations ….but that is not racing. Far from it actually.
Hot suv’s are a market. That is all.

 

[grim]

While drag racing is racing, I don’t know of anyone that is actually participating in a given drag racing class with a Macan?

My intention was not to infer the drags were not racing, but they are not what Porsche AG does and never have been. hence the sentence "Perhaps you mean somebody heading to the local dragstrips or street racing?" I also took out auto crossing since I think PCA might have Macans doing auto crossing. However, Porsche is known for one thing only, Road Racing, whether it be the 908 or 919, its all road racing and some rallies. There was a Cayenne in the TransSyberia Rally, something AP mentioned in his quote.

The essence is the "assertion" that the buying public for Macans give two hoots about some people trying to get clicks on YT drag racing. Hardly. Wrong crowd and this forum, and any other full of enthusiasts is not the mainstream buying public, mostly CHINA. You never see the people down the street driving all those base Macans online here, some, but they will come and go.

I refer people to this article by Baruth from Nov, 2013. He's got it right. Many people are just Acura buyers going up scale. That is the bulk of the crowd and the base sales seals this.

Avoidable Contact: Cayenne won't help ya, Cayenne won't do you no good. - The Truth About Cars

“When,” I asked her, “did you realize that you, were, well, you know, an actual prostitute?” “Well,” she said, rubbing her cigarette out in the waffle-patterned wrought-iron table, shielding her eyes against the sun as it set in the distance, “I’d been dancing for a while, and there was kind of...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

With the NA 997 .2 and .2 the difference between base and S were a little different than when Porsche went all turbo .

Correct and true for the 991.1 too. The rumor I've read is that the .2 gap between base and S was intentionally closed for emissions. Get people to buy the base and overall emissions go down for the company. Maybe they make up the difference in options. Same price for colored seatbelts in a base car or Turbo S. Its all profit.

This is relevant because its the same in Macans, the performance gap between base/S and a Turbo is very real. And that is the point of this SUV discussion. Few buy the higher performance Macan trims, well for 2021, only 16% and @trusted has the rest of the numbers. Its not the audience for this car.

Why would anyone thing the huge majority of Macan buyers give two hoots about YT drag races likely contrived to get clicks? The buying evidence does not support it.

Porsche wants buyers to chase the labels . I don't think Porsche expected the Macan to be noted for drag racing and there is so much more to an SUV than this type of thing . Porsche does get named in the fastest car categories .

Whether its skill. performance and speed .. 4 cars out of the top 10. Look who is number 1 Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - FastestLaps.com

0-60 seems to be this big deal marketing measure .. Porsche is there too ... The Quickest Cars of the Decade

BMW and Alfa aren't close to this . Porsche is just not trying to do this with an SUV . I think the others do it just to say "see I can beat the Porsche " . The thing is Porsche isn't trying . When they do try .. they either win or make themselves very known.

All correct but they are there for reason. The ring is the standard by which Racing is judged. If you don't put up a Ring time, kiss your performance sales goodbye.

0 - 60 times have sales value for the paper napkin racers. Car magazines have used them for 60 years. They sell cars. We know the Porsche published numbers are conservative. But for road racing, nobody cares about 0 - 60 times. How many drag races you see at any WEC race? None until out of the pit lanes and accelerating to catch up with the pack.

They are meaningless numbers other than to napkin paper racing. Sports cars can go to the drags, but that is NOT what they are designed for. Interestingly enough, some speculation from the "journalists"

Porsche's Hotter, Track-Devouring Cayenne Coupe Hits the Nürburgring

The new 600-plus-hp Cayenne model claimed a new lap record at the famed German track.

www.motortrend.com

"You don't trot out Walter Röhrl for fast laps at the Hockenheimring if you're just doing a photo op with a pedestrian SUV." They really don't know, all speculation at to what is going on. An off road version coming? More Speculation. Notice the date, Spring 2020.

2021 Porsche Cayenne Turbo GT - A Rare Sighting Of An Impressively Powerful SUV - Updated @ Top Speed

"the 2021 Cayenne Turbo GT is rumored to become the company’s range-topping model. It could also be a hybrid that generates more oomph than the already impressive Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid model. The fact that it was also spotted at the Nurburgring in the past suggests it will be more dynamic than any other Cayenne on the market. The equivalent of the 911 GT3 for SUVs if you will. The name is not yet official, but it could be called the Cayenne Coupe Turbo GT5, a badge that Porsche trademarked back in 2015."

All rumor, they got noting verified. But wait, whats this? A Porsche factory driver has just put up the fastest ring time for a SUV ever at 7:39. For perspective, thats just a second slower that the 991.1S from a factory driver 9 years ago and a Ferrari 458 but FASTER by two seconds than the 981 GT4 5 years ago. Now the question is, why?

Could the rumors be true? Or is it just the normal King of the Hill thing. Just like the Cayman/Boxster younger siblings will never outshine the 911, its highly unlikely the Macan will ever be allowed to outshine the true money maker, its older brother the Cayenne, the vehicle, along with the Boxster, that saved the company from bankruptcy. Maybe they are heading to the Trans Siberian Rally again? Could it be Dakar?

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[Gra]

All rumor, they got noting verified. But wait, whats this? A Porsche factory driver has just put up the fastest ring time for a SUV ever at 7:39. For perspective, thats just a second slower that the 991.1S from a factory driver 9 years ago and a Ferrari 458 but FASTER by two seconds than the 981 GT4 5 years ago.

Careful with these figures Grim, most of the pre 2019 times quoted for the Nordschleife relate to a track configuration of 20.6 kms not the actual 20.832 kms of the full track, which is now mandated for all official records. Previously, for safety reasons, the time would commence on leaving the old T13 pit area and cease once a line was crossed on the last right hander leading past the T13 pit area. This enabled the car to slow down and return to the pit area up the exit road rather than having to complete another full lap. All Ring times now are supposed to include both the older short 20.6 km and the now standard 20.832 km distance, to enable accurate comparisons of time. Porsche, for whatever reason, has not shown the shorter distance time for the Performance Model so the gaps you mentioned are more like another two seconds in favour of the Cayenne - The Performance Model is in fact faster than the 991.1S (7:37) and 458 (at 7:38 by Sport Auto in Aug 2010 but Auto Bild did a 7:32 in the same car on the longer 20.832 km track in Nov 2010) and about four seconds faster than the 981 GT4. Further, all previous to 2019 times may not be considered accurate due to sometimes questionable vehicle configuration. Now, to be able to claim official times, the test must be conducted in the presence of an independent certification officer who checks the vehicle compliance and timing system/s.

On your last point, yes baby brother Macan will never be freed to out perform it's bigger brother Cayenne - this is what held the Cayman back for so long. Perhaps it may have also been a reason that Ring times were never quoted for the Macan Turbo PP, after all every Porsche model gets it's Ring time as part of the build program.

 

[yrralis1]

All correct but they are there for reason. The ring is the standard by which Racing is judged. If you don't put up a Ring time, kiss your performance sales goodbye.

0 - 60 times have sales value for the paper napkin racers. Car magazines have used them for 60 years. They sell cars. We know the Porsche published numbers are conservative. But for road racing, nobody cares about 0 - 60 times. How many drag races you see at any WEC race? None until out of the pit lanes and accelerating to catch up with the pack.

They are meaningless numbers other than to napkin paper racing. Sports cars can go to the drags, but that is NOT what they are designed for. Interestingly enough, some speculation from the "journalists"

Spot on !!
Many of us came from the same juvenile background as most high school kids that look at a car and imagine it as "fast" . Their innocence turn to the street and fantasizes about beating Guido is a street race because that is what he sees . He sees the guy on the street revving his engine and wants to beat him . It's the convenience of the location and simple competitive nature . The results are often disastrous .

In the meantime the real racers as kids are already enrolled in Go-Karts and there parents go to the events just like football parents or any other sport .When older the street kid never forgot Guido and the Go-Kart kid is already in organized racing . Its two different worlds .

The adult coming from both backgrounds has grown in other areas . He (or she) might be a successful professional in a solid career or a driver with sponsors . I have seen pro drivers as young as 19 in Miami with expensive cars that they bought themselves because they won races . However there also is the 35 -50 year old guy who never had the money but now does and remembers Guido . So he goes out and buys a car thinking he's going to be king of the street and thats what those 0-60 and drag race clips are all really about .

Then there is the aftermath of this process . The pro driver realizes its a job like any other job . Even high income drivers can burn out . The fun they had in youth at the Go Kart has become a thing in his past . Its replaced with demands that are found in any career . There are also dangers .

The street kid goes out and wins a few stoplight races . He doesn't make a cent doing it but it's all ego until something goes wrong . If he's lucky its a few speeding tickets or the car breaks down with a denied warranty . If not he can crash but the huge difference is he has much more to lose . So he matures and comes to terms with the track being the appropriate road . The problem is he is much older now . His vision, reflexes and lack of experience bring him late to the game .

I understand both worlds . It may take some guys a bit of time to get there though .
I myself came from the street . My parents thought road racing was 'too dangerous" . I always like to "go fast" so swimming graduated to triathlon until all the injuries . I didn't have the kind of coaching that I see with Olympians who I have watched grow up nor did I have the early opportunity to road racing .
I understand the videos . I have grown past them . They might as well.