[Masscan]

So looks like no more Turbo but the new GTS with the "old" Turbo power. Not a bad combo, kind of what the 2017/18 Turbo PP offered.

That is good news when it comes to the GTS.

If Porsche wants me to buy a third ICE Macan, the GTS is the only model I'm interested in, and it would need at least 450hp.

 

[Masscan]

Further, Porsche's top-spec Turbo is just too slow compared to the X3M / X5M, et al to be called the "turbo". These videos don't help - a Porsche can't be the slow dog compared to ALL of the competition....

Exactly. I'd be pissed if I spent Turbo money just so I could be slower on the street than less expensive ICE SUVs. I would never buy a BMW X3M/X4M comp since it doesn't have air suspension.

The new M3 when it's released with xDrive....well that's a whole different story.

 

[Masscan]

Are you upset now that your GTS is slower than less expensive ICE SUVs on the street?

Not at all because at the time I purchased my 2020 GTS, it was not the top dog for the Macan line.

Now will what I believe is still a the lack of power for the 2022 Macan GTS since it's now the top dog influence my next vehicle purchase, **** right it will. The BMW M3 xDrive with over 500 hp is looking better and better.

 

[Masscan]

SUV sport drivers are heathens, trying to make a freighter fast-n-furious, living their lives one quarter-grocery-run at a time.

You know how proper racing should be done, and SUVs ain't it. You're a dialed-in sport driver who attacks the track, but SUV sport drivers don't, because they can't!

Spot on! Although the Fast-n-Furious life is more important to the Macan GTS and Turbo owners....

The Macan is an SUV....it's NEVER going to handle like a 911 or a 718, and 99% of Macan owners will NEVER take their Macan to a track or a drag strip. But the Macan sure can handle better than most other SUVs, the PDK is brilliant, and the build quality is superb.

Now with that said, what are the other important things a performance SUV (especially a Porsche) is expected to do for that 99% group that drive their Macans solely on the street every day?

Easy....accelerate briskly, and to a lesser extent....brake hard. What else can they really do on the street besides flooring it when the light turns green or letting the badger out of the bag when passing on the highway? Hence why the 0 to 60 mph specs are so important for the "paper napkin racers" as grim calls them, and currently the less expensive BMW X3M / X4M Comp is the compact SUV king of the hill when it comes to 0 to 60 mph.

I hope Porsche in paying attention to the drag race videos showing the newest 434 hp Turbo Macan coming in last against the 503 hp X3/4M Comp and the Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio....but then again, why should Porsche care since the new EV Macan comes out next year....

 

[Masscan]

Did you know people hate Cayman gearing? Porsche gearing is meant for the autobahn, driving at 160 - 170. Its not meant for US highways driving at 65 - 75. Acceleration times could be much faster. And yet, Porsche does not provide proper gearing for US highways? Why not? Given any thought to that? Why do Macans have gearing to allow it to do 150. You doing 150 in Mass? I doubt it. It could accelerate much quicker, but they choose to keep the gearing for Germany.

I remember reading something along those lines last year about the Cayman....personally I could care less about top speed, can't use it on the street safely.

What I DO care about when it comes to performance is acceleration (with little to no turbo lag), handling (air suspension a BIG plus), braking....in that order.

So if Porsche has given up the ghost on the ICE Macan, and has no problem with it losing 0 to 60 races to less expensive vehicles in its class, then it will drive people like me to look elsewhere when looking for their next new vehicle. Yes tech is nice to have, but I bought my $87k MSRP Porsche mostly for the performance....not to be slower than other vehicles in its class.

If Porsche wants me to purchase the last refresh / generation of the ICE Macan, they will have to prove to me they are serious about performance & constant improvement, and put out a true "Top Dog" contender if they want my money again. Perhaps a "PP" version of the Macan GTS before finally retiring the ICE version completely.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my current 2020 GTS (aside from the exhaust note), and I was extremely pleased how Porsche improved the GEN II (e.g. more power, less turbo lag, improved brake pedal feel, improved handling, better tech)....so much so I traded in a 2018 GTS for the new generation. But merely giving the GTS the power of the outgoing Turbo (something the GTS motor potentially has anyway since it's a detuned version of the same 2.9L) is just not enough of a power improvement for my repeat business.

 

[Masscan]

When the German Automakers, MB, Audi, and BMW made the "gentlemen's agreement to limit the top speed of their cars to 155 MPH, guess which automaker said "NEIN". C'mon guess 🤔 Could it be ?????

What matters to you does not translate to what matters to them. You might not care but Porsche does.

Fair enough. I still feel Porsche should care more than they do about 0 to 60, and when they are lagging behind their competitors in this category.

"It is better to enter a turn slow and come out fast, than to enter a turn fast and come out dead"

F. Porsche

Braking and Handling.

I guess what you consider to be important is not what they consider to be as important. Porsche, AFAIK, spends much of it resources in braking. Its about THE most important thing. I don't have the references in front of me but its something about the brakes have to pull the car down from something like 100 to zero 10 times in a row without fade. Its also the reason many Porsche drivers are very wary about cars behind them coming to stops. They know how fast they can stop but the people behind them can't. You notice a lot of Macans get rear ended? Over the years you know to ALWAYS look behind you when slowing down because one comes accustomed to the brakes.

Understood, but the Macan is an SUV, not a track car like the 911 and the 718. If Porsche cared so much about the brakes on the Macan, they would have done a much better job with the standard brakes on the GEN I....one of my biggest complaints on my old 2018 GTS....brake pedal feel like a wet noodle.

Of all the cars you've owned, has any other manufacturer INSISTED that you bleed the brakes every two years? Any? I haven't, none. Why is Porsche so concerned.

Both my 2015 C300 and later 2016 C450 "B" services (every 20,000 miles) included a brake fluid change....does that count?

You notice a lot of Acronyms thrown about like PDDC, SPASM, PTV, PCCBs, etc.? All handling and braking in order of importance. Acceleration is easy. Its easy to make a car accelerate fast. Dump the weight, e.g. get rid of the sound proofing, reducing body panel weights, reduce unsprung weight, hence PCCBs, get rid of all the fluffy bits that do nothing for performance like sunroofs.

Or Porsche could just give the Macan more power. The 2.9L is capable of more.

You mentioned AS. Haven't you noticed there really isn't any serious suspensions for these CUVs? Do you see anyone talking about spring weights, coilovers, corner balancing, and the like? Why not? I guess H&R sells some stiffer springs but its rarely spoken off.

Porsche supposedly upped the AS stiffness again for the refreshed GTS by another 10 to 15%....

Maybe you bought into the wrong marque. The history of Porsche is not one of chasing other companies. Other companies chase them. If you pay attention, there is always the latest and greatest offerings, a new MB GT, a Jaguar SUV or F something or another. No one cares. And there is always the Corvertte comparisons. And yet, Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world.

In 7 years you seen anything change? No, prices just keep going up. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Yep, and that will be me saying good bye to the new refreshed ICE Porsche Macan if 434hp is all they can muster for the new "Top Dog" GTS.

I suspect you bought into the wrong brand. There is always a new product to chase. Meanwhile there will be legions of new buyers behind you entering the Porsche marketplace. Good luck with your new BMW/MB/Audi or whatever else is out there.

I'm very pleased with my 2020 GTS....all I'm saying is if Porsche wants me to buy another ICE Macan, they will have to up the power level.

BTW, you notice that PDDC was available for the Cayenne? The Cayenne is the premier SUV, its the flagship. It is the model that the money is being invested in and is obvious from the recent Ring Times. The Macan is the baby, younger sibling. It gets the technology that trickles down. Maybe you either bought the wrong Marque or the wrong model.

I would never buy a Cayenne....too big. Empty nester here.

If acceleration is your benchmark and what you care about, then you are going to join the numbers of people who left the marque. Performance is far more than 0 to 60 stop light wars. Its the entire spectrum to include high speed cruising at 155 and braking time after time without fade. IOW, they emulate road racing, they always speak that Macan is a sportscar among SUVs. They never say its a dragster.

Acceleration is just one of the three benchmarks I mentioned in my last post that I care most about in a vehicle....and I want to see improvements with ALL three in my next vehicle....be it a "PP" Macan GTS, or a new M3 xDrive.

 

[Masscan]

What if we hadn't proven ourself over 60 years at the racetrack?????

EVERYTHING BEGAN WITH MOTORSPORT - EVERYTHING

This is what is in their blood. Not dragstrips. Not the fast and furious....

I never questioned Porsche's heritage in motorsport, but again, the Macan is an SUV....not a track car. And it really wouldn't take much effort on Porsche's part to boost the power on the now top of the line GTS to keep up with the Joneses in it's class.

I think you did buy the wrong car. Its OK, I've bought the wrong cars before too in my life. You live and learn.

Porsche moves very slowly, evolving over time. Building an EV is revolutionary for them and taking time. But I never remember them moving "quickly" to satisfy anyone else or any other company. Don't like them, walk away. They will always be others to take your space. Its no different than the arguments against bespoke pricing. Don't like the pricing of options? Buy another car. The company will still be the most profitable car company in the world as new people come into the marque. We all live and learn.

Possible....but the Macan fits my current needs perfectly, just wish the now top of the line model had more power to justify why I should buy yet another ICE GTS in the future before they're gone for good.

 

[Masscan]

They likely could do it . I don't think ability is what is standing in their way. I am going to guess that with PDK the costs of offering a 4 year 50K warranty has tamed them down.

This was my first thought as to why Porsche may be hesitant is boosting the power on the Macan, but if memory serves me correctly, I remember reading somewhere that the PDK is good for 600 ftlb of torque. Now with that much grunt and using launch control everyday, I can see how this might affect warranty.

On the other hand though, I feel its more about cannibalizing sales from the Cayenne or Audi SUVs. Audi themselves get at least 444hp from the same 2.9L, correct?

Usually Porsche gives a token power upgrade in a refresh....like going from 360hp in the GEN I GTS to 375hp in the GEN II GTS. This time though their new "Top Dog" Macan (GTS) gets no power increase from the Turbo before it (434hp).

I feel they should have given the new top of the line GTS at least 450 hp....either that or Porsche is holding out for a "PP" pkg. in the 2023 GTS model....that or they just don't want the ICE Macan to be anywhere near as powerful as the EV Macan.

 

[Masscan]

A long time ago Porsche realized that if they kept going up in Hp they would eventually run out of room to go up . Think about it - a 2007 turbo had 480 . If they bumped too high by now we'd be at 1500 hp (maybe more) . So they began aiming at efficiency . They became very careful throwing more Hp on . I know that US car culture is almost like muscle car thinking where bigger is better but even muscle cars have Hp limits . Only in fast and Furious movies does a 5000 Hp car exist. (see 1 min 52 sec)

Understood, but giving a token power increase to the new top of the line GTS, a vehicle with AWD, would not be too hard for Porsche....especially if the 2.9L is capable of more than 434hp in an Audi.

What was the power level in a PP Turbo Macan?....440hp/442ft-lb from their 3.6L, correct? So the PDK and the rest of the drive chain is good for at least that. The RS5 gets 444hp and 442ft-lb from their 2.9L.

Why can't the 2022 Macan GTS get at least 444hp and 442ft-lb....just saying....

 

[Masscan]

I think Porsche is facing a huge transition as they head into making the Macan EV . There seems to be so much uncertainty that it’s made it’s way into these frequent mediocre refresh moves . It’s a shame to see it go out this way.

I agree.

If Porsche has already given up on improving the ICE Macan when it comes to engine performance of the 2.9L, even though there's still has at least 3 build years left, maybe I should too....

 

[Masscan]

The original PDK isn't PDK its an Audi DSG 501. But that came from Porsche in the 80s and then filtered through VAG. The sports cars don't use that, they are Porsche designed by ZF. All PDKs are NOT the same. If you look at englands post, he had receipts. The Turbo PDK has more beefed up clutch packs than the other models. The others are good to 400 ft lbs. In the 911 the PDK is not the same between Turbos and Carreras and the GT3 uses PDK-S, AFAIK, another version, or did. Dunno about today but I doubt its the same PDK as in the Turbo.

Well the current 2021 Turbo and the coming 2022 GTS have 405 lb-ft of torque, so they are already over 400 ft-lb for their PDKs.

Maybe they have beefier clutch packs in their PDKs?

My "guess" is there is no money in it, ROI is little to nothing especially since the GTS sells so poorly. There is no way to get around the sales numbers. The money is in the base cars and S. Read the annual report. All the receipts for the future are there in black and white, actually a lot of blue and white, in the report. ALL the Macan discussion is about the EV, not a word about ICE. Example: Annual and Sustainability Report of Porsche AG, 2020

I would agree to this. I believe this is more true than the PDK not being able to handle a minor increase of torque.

BTW, this is where I read that 600ft-lb limit for the PDK....

991.2 RWD Porsche PDK torque limit found - PorscheBoost Project 991.2 Carrera getting first US/North America PDK transmission upgrade from Dodson

991.2 RWD Porsche PDK torque limit found - PorscheBoost Project 991.2 Carrera getting first US/North America PDK transmission upgrade from Dodson

www.porscheboost.com

I think you did buy into the wrong marque. And this EV revolution is very real and going to happen. You can't read their Annual Report and not realize it. Thats OK. I've bought brands before and thought Ewwwww. 😫 We all do it.

Again, it's possible I bought the wrong vehicle. I just can't think of a similar vehicle to the Macan that I would want to purchase again since it fits my needs so well.

I hope you know I'm not knocking the Macan, I love mine. But I expect to see performance improvements (including power) like just about every other new or refreshed vehicle that comes out. Theres NO WAY I would have traded-in my GEN I GTS for my current GEN II GTS if Porsche had not had upped the power, even with all my complaints I had with my older GEN I....I still loved it. And if Porsche has given up on the ICE Macan, down the road come trade-in time I will give up on the Macan too and shop a different vehicle.

I'm jaded I guess owning a 2020 GTS, but a future refreshed $92k+ Macan GTS (performance optioned like I want it) with what seems to be a plateaued 434hp is just not going to cut it with me. It would take at least 444hp and 442ft-lb to sway me....if not, perhaps a M3 with xDrive would suit the bill.

 

[Masscan]

Hmmmm. 434 won't cut it, but 444 will ? 2.3 % difference. Where on earth would you notice the difference in performance ?

Mostly from the increase in torque....405 to 442ft-lb....

 

[Masscan]

I mean, @Masscan, I really feel you are splitting hairs and finding disappointment in something that really shouldn't be that disappointing. Your 18 to 20 upgrade is similar to what your 20 to 22 upgrade would be and the reality is, the Macan hasn't been the fastest, most bang for your buck "top dog" in quite some time. Like @grim has pointed out, it's not Porsche's MO and this new GTS is a stop gap for the EV version due in a couple of years. It really seems like you are trying to justify why you'll make the eventual move to BMW.

Maybe so. Porsche has recently given token power increases to it's other refreshed models....definitely sounds like they've punted on the ICE Macan already, and I understand why.

I'm just saying it's not worth it to me to trade up from a 2020 GTS to the new "top of the line" 2022/23 GTS when the power has not been increased from the discontinued 2021 Turbo. The 2.9L is capable of more than 434hp/405ft-lb, and I'm not ready for an EV yet.

 

[Masscan]

Has MY2022 GTS specs been confirmed by Porsche or at least with experienced Porsche SA when ordering process starts on MY2022?

The Porsche build site still shows the Macan Turbo model, so other than what I've read on line, August?

Would recommend get a well maintained F80 M3 Competition (DCT) instead of G80 M3 (Automatic) as new gen M built with 50-limited run of launch control and performance degrades after that. Those paid online reviews usually gave aggressive 0-60 or 1/4 mile review result during the initial limited run, this is one bad trend about new M, including F90 M5.

Thank you for the tips. Since my M3 will be 100% street driven, the new auto tranny will most likely work out better for me over the DCT when it comes to drivability in traffic situations. Also, if I do end up with a new M3, it will have xDrive....which makes the vehicle even quicker at 0 to 60mph.

In terms of new Macan GTS, I see what you meant, with same 434hp, it can already be achieved with third party chip tune and beyond. Would be nice if Porsche simply offer ECU software upgrade pack that enabled current Macan to be flashed with minimal $$$. Then owners of the existing Macan have a path to get it upgraded as they are the same underlying 2.9L engine.

Or Porsche could just offer the 2.9L with the same 444hp/442ft-lb that Audi offers for the very same motor....I'd be happy with just that. My guess is Porsche will offer a "PP" package for the Macan GTS in it's last production year, and that's why they are holding at the 434hp/405ft-lb level for now when it comes to the new "Top Dog" GTS.

 

[Masscan]

Porsche knows their market and they do very well at selling cars to them.

My wife and I went up to Porsche of Nashua on Saturday to make an appointment for the first yearly maintenance on my 2020 Macan GTS, and to test drive a Taycan. BTW, the back lot was FULL of Base and S Macans. They were chocking on them.

As for our Taycan test drive, the wife is interested in a 4 S, but since they didn't have any on the lot, we ended up driving a Turbo S. The vehicle is SUPER quick, and drives with surgical precision, but I was unimpressed with the interior and all it's cheap plastic....especially the back of the front seats. Next up, a Tesla S....

 

[Masscan]

Interested to hear your thoughts on the Tesla. Keep us posted. (As I almost considered a 3 instead of the X4).

Will do.

Edit: I’ve spoken with Porsche Nashua a few times when I was eyeing newer GTSs to trade up. They seem like extremely nice people.

Yes, Steve was great, and Mark the Service manager was great to work with too.

Steve told my wife he would notify her when a 4 S comes in so she can test drive that as well since that was her original choice.