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Second Generation Macan

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127K views 539 replies 148 participants last post by  dave-t 
#1 ·
Porsche has just announced the new generation Cayenne in e-hybrid flavor, boasting a 136HP electric drive coupled with the Cayenne base’s single-turbo engine. Now, if we take that as a proxy to speculate about a potential plug-in hybrid Macan, we can think of the 4-cylinder Audi engine coupled with the same electric drive that we find in the hybrid Cayenne and Panamera, which would deliver a total of around 360HP, which will probably be similar to the power to be found on the facelift Macan S, and lots of torque from as low as 1000 revs. This would make sense since the new Cayenne e-hybrid takes the base Cayenne’s engine and, adding the electric drive, delivers a total of 462HP (enough for an impressive 4.8s time for the 0-60), which is 22 more than the 440HP of the Cayenne S. Throw in some 25-30 miles of pure electric drive, good for many city commuters, and all this priced at roughly the same price point as the Macan S.

I’m really curious to know what your thoughts abut such a model would be. A few months ago I would have said ‘not for me’ since my wife’s Cayenne doesn’t deliver much ‘Porscheness’ to me, but now I find it a very appealing proposition to replace my Macan GTS one day.
 
#2 ·
As a former owner of a Cayenne e-Hybrid I was very disappointed, hence "former". Maybe the new generation will be better. My Cayenne e-Hybrid had an Audi supercharged (not turbo) V-6 using Tip transmission so not sure if there is a Macan e-Hybrid that you'll see a Tip or PDK - I like the PDK so much more than Tip. Sales rep mentioned to me that since Cayenne is more likely to be a tow vehicle, it used the Tip. Anyway, I think I'd wait for further technology (battery) improvements before buying a Macan e-Hybrid.
 
#3 ·
I'd consider a hybrid Macan at some point down the road. I've got a short commute, so using little to no gas would be ideal for me. I wouldn't want to compromise on power & handling, though.
 
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#4 ·
I would absolutely consider it (it will be a lot better than the early Cayenne E-Hybrid). I fill up my turbo more often than any of my previous cars. I chart the mileage on an app and over 43k miles, I'm averaging 17.1 mpg. Only one tank cracked 20mpg and that was on a long, all-highway trip. A lot of my driving is city but it's just brutal. I'm averaging around 16 gallons each fill (try not to run all the way to empty bc of tank sediment, etc.) which is only 270 miles of range.

I really, really wish the Macan had the 90-liter (23.8 gallon) tank from the Panamera GTS & turbo.
 
#10 ·
That's very impressive mileage though compared to my S. Granted, I've had it new only for couple of months, but I haven't got anything more than 13.8 combined yet. I do have a bit heavy right foot, and also tend to drive in Sport mode. Will the mileage improve going forward? I see you clocked 45K miles.
 
#5 ·
Unlikely, although I would love a Turbo S hybrid
The problem with the Macan is that the platform has nowhere for the hardware for the extra electric motors and battery. Sure it can be done but lets face it, Porsche won't really half-ass it just to get the product out.
 
#11 ·
Here is the article I just saw today that speculates I assume that there will be 3 versions of EV Macan: "The base model would pack 215 horsepower (166 kW), the mid-level version with 322 hp (240 kW), and the top-of-the-line with 430 hp (320 kW). The latter would ostensibly come close to the Macan Turbo with the optional Performance Package that churns out 434 hp (324 kW)."
 
#13 ·
No more Macans with ICE Engines Starting in 2022

I’m on a business trip and staying at the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Niquel California, and I’m seeing dozens of people walking around with shirts with the Porsche logo.

So I strike up a conversation with one of them and mention that I own a 996 as well as a Macan.

He mentioned that he has been with PCNA for 10 years and is helping to conduct a Brand Ambassador Level 3 (whatever Level 3 is) training session at the hotel, and further mentions that as of 2022 all Macans will be all electric.

All I can say is that I received the strong impression that he knows what he’s talking about.
 
#41 ·
I’m on a business trip and staying at the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Niquel California, and I’m seeing dozens of people walking around with shirts with the Porsche logo.

So I strike up a conversation with one of them and mention that I own a 996 as well as a Macan.

He mentioned that he has been with PCNA for 10 years and is helping to conduct a Brand Ambassador Level 3 (whatever Level 3 is) training session at the hotel, and further mentions that as of 2022 all Macans will be all electric.

All I can say is that I received the strong impression that he knows what he’s talking about.

After thinking about this and reading the EV stuff in the current Porsche magazine, I'm wondering if he meant hybrids by "all electric"? I could certainly see that by 2022 (as opposed to pure all electric) ...... in which case I would still snare one of the last all-ICE models in 2021.
 
#17 ·
No way, I say BS! As if Porsche would do that to their #1 selling product, the Macan.

All electric: That would be a progressive environmental liberal wet dream come true. Maybe all electric for Kalifornia... lol.

All electric is far off, the entire power / fuel infrastructure still would need to be completely overhauled & the tech ejeftric auti tech much improved.
 
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#37 ·
No way, I say BS! ... a progressive environmental liberal wet dream come true. Maybe all electric for Kalifornia... lol.
Ok, that truly made me LAUGH out LOUD.
:)
I'm actually hoping this happens sooner rather than later.
Two reasons:
1. Value of our Macan ICE models should commensurately increase. (I'm a "buy and hold" kind of owner and will use a certified indy after my warranty runs out in 2021. I'm setting aside a reserve fund now.)

2. Diminished demand for dino fuel should commensurately decrease gas prices, minimizing tho not eliminating the dip into my retirement accts to pay for gas. My wife and I have developed "lead foot" disease which is draining my wallet faster than I can replenish it!!
 
#18 ·
I will say, despite how much i think all tesla drivers are giant dbags, after driving my friends model 3, EVs are the future.

It was soooo much smoother than any other ICE car i've driven. And the instant torque and brake makes it a super fun drive too. Can't wait for porsche to go EV on all models except the 911 maybe
 
#19 ·
I was going to say that don’t think that’s going to happen, that it might be that the next-gen Macan would only offer electrified drivetrains but not only EV (i.e. a range of hybrid models and EV), and that I think it’s still too early for a EV-only Macan.

But on second thoughts, I don’t see how Porsche or any other manufacturer could offer ICE and/or hybrid and EV versions of the same model, since the car is conceived differently from the outset: the positioning of the batteries, the distribution of different elements (and therefore, mass) in the car, the transmission concept... it’s just too different. Therefore, yes, I can believe that if (and I stress the “if”) the next-gen Macan is conceived as an EV, then it will only be EV.
 
#20 ·
But on second thoughts, I don’t see how Porsche or any other manufacturer could offer ICE and/or hybrid and EV versions of the same model, since the car is conceived differently from the outset: the positioning of the batteries, the distribution of different elements (and therefore, mass) in the car, the transmission concept... it’s just too different. Therefore, yes, I can believe that if (and I stress the “if”) the next-gen Macan is conceived as an EV, then it will only be EV.
Very interesting perspective !!
 
#24 ·
Many of us would just have to say no, as it rules out long trips, especially off the beaten track.

I don’t believe Porsche would bet the entire company on it. And that’s what it would be, a giant roll of the dice. Their shareholders would not allow it.
 
#22 ·
This is being engineered by the European Enviromental wackos. Rest assured that if it does happen (a big if) that there will be a run on the last gas-propelled Macans .... and that demand and price will skyrocket for used ones once production ceases (as happened with the 2012 RAV4 with the V6 engine.)


I - for one - will be buying another one early in the last production year.
 
#25 ·
Porsche is under VW Group control. VW is (unofficially but very real) under German government control. So Porsche may not have much of a say. VW Group were cheating on their engines emissions for years. Everybody knew but no one intervened. Easy money with inferior (emissions wise) and cheaper to develop engines. Now they are years behind in R&D. The new RDE testing in Europe is the nail in the coffin if implemented as scheduled. For Porsche it's about survival currently - nothing less! They are in big trouble...can't get my new 718 done anywhere near the promised date. Because they are banging out all the 911 they can at the moment. Production capacity is limited because of Taycan assembly line construction. It's pure panic in Zuffenhausen.



There is an election in Germany in 2021...the last hope for ICE Porsche imo. If not I see a mid engine Corvette in my very near future.
 
#26 ·
Interesting to see the different POV's.
I personally think that EV is the future. If you look around from F1 to road cars it is already happening.
Now why would Porsche do this to their #1 selling model simple, there is no better way to push the agenda ahead. If you want one this is the only one you are going to get. If you ask me it is a master stroke.
As for how long it is going to take to charge one and the infrastructure needed to build a charging net work. Be honest when was the last time you went to gas station and in and out in 5 minutes :) I bet the average time a consumer spends in the gas station is closer to 10 mins. With the proposed charging network a Taycan will be at 80% in 15 minutes. Thanks to dieselgate VW is going to build a Charging network in US. I think the initial investment is going to be around $2 b.
In Canada they will be building 32 of those charging stations.
 
#27 ·
Interesting to see the different POV's.
I personally think that EV is the future. If you look around from F1 to road cars it is already happening.
Now why would Porsche do this to their #1 selling model simple, there is no better way to push the agenda ahead. If you want one this is the only one you are going to get. If you ask me it is a master stroke.
As for how long it is going to take to charge one and the infrastructure needed to build a charging net work. Be honest when was the last time you went to gas station and in and out in 5 minutes :) I bet the average time a consumer spends in the gas station is closer to 10 mins. With the proposed charging network a Taycan will be at 80% in 15 minutes. Thanks to dieselgate VW is going to build a Charging network in US. I think the initial investment is going to be around $2 b.
In Canada they will be building 32 of those charging stations.

We then have to assess a system of taxation for EV vehicles, that leads to GPS tracking of miles and a levy every single month as a use/mileage tax.

How many people will be willing to allow BIG BROTHER unlimited data to track your speed, an entire route from start to finish, I can see politicians levying speeding fines once real time data tracking is implemented.


Do not forget the ability to turn off your vehicle or take control of it via WIFI, so if you do not pay the bill, they shut your vehicle off.

I will hold onto an older more simpler vehicle as long as I can, the very reason I am rebuilding a 50 year 1968 Chevelle Malibu, it runs off a distributor and a carb, no way for anyone to take control, track or shut it down.

Think of the freedom lost with this scheme to go EV.

Not for me............:D
 
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#30 ·
From the latest edition of Porsche Magazine which I received yesterday ....

"For Porsche, the future is electric. The company wants to shift to electromobility before all other German auto manufacturers. By 2025 the aim is for every second Porsche sold to have an electric drive unit, with half the models purely electric and the other half plug-in hybrids."

There is also an interview with Stefan Weckbach who is in charge of developing the Taycan model range. Here is what he says,

"Electrification is a significant part of our product strategy, which comprises three pillars. The first pillar is represented by the puristic sports cars with internal combustion engines, while the second is made up of our hybrid vehicles. The third pillar, the fully electric vehicles, points the way to the future. This triad means that we can cover the entire market spectrum and satisfy all our customer needs."

From the horses mouth. I would trust the mag way before a sales rep.
 
#31 ·
I would not dismiss the OP’s post out of hand. Here’s why.

Lets start with Rennteam, an EU auto enthusiasts board. Sometimes those guys have some insight we in NA do not. Click on rennteam.com (can’t direct link), click on Porsche then Macan, then the ALL tab. Click on Bye bye Macan. The first post is by the mod talking about next gen Macan. It says Macan Electric, Hybrid & EV? By 2022 and every second Porsche by 2023. Where did he get that? Lets follow the timeline. Maybe this:

June 2017 https://translate.google.com/transl...eug-soll-bald-elektroauto-sein-a-1153417.html

Read the translation yourself but it says by 2023 ever other Porsche will have an electric drive - maybe that means hybrid or EV. And by 2022, it will be the Macan. The CEO wants the next gen Macan to only be electric. Read the article.

Sept, 2017

The Volkswagen Group launches the most comprehensive electrification initiative in the automotive industry with “Roadmap E”

That’s not Mission E. That’s Roadmap E for all VAG. This is the VAG CEO speaking, former PAG CEO. “The transformation in our industry is unstoppable. And we will lead that transformation,” said Müller.” Read the words of the CEO carefully. VAG intends to lead the way to electrification. Since VAG is the biggest of second biggest carmaker in the world, that says something.

Nov, 2017


https://www.volkswagenag.com/presen...ber/PR66 Conference Call 20112017_Website.pdf

This the VW strategic plan. Read it and weep (figuratively) See the three electrification waves. Those aren't Mission E. That's all the brands.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/electric-porsche-macan-could-be-a-possibility-121913.html

“One of those vehicles is an electric Macan, described by Porsche Cars North America chief executive officer Klaus Zellmer as “a possibility for us.”Considering that Porsche is investing more than 3 billion euros (almost $3.6 billion) over the next five years toward electrification, offering a Macan-like EV is not a question of “if” but a matter of “when.”

http://europe.autonews.com/article/...-eu-emissions-targets-with-electrified-lineup

“When asked about the second EV in store by 2025, Steiner did not confirm an electric Macan but said Porsche would not go with another sports car.” No sports car? That leaves Macan, Cayenne, and Panamera.

Mar, 2018

Porsche Annual Report, “Annual and Sustainability Report of Porsche AG 2017” CEO:

“...The pan-European high-power charging network IONITY by Porsche, Audi, BMW, Daimler and Ford is now charting a course towards the establishment of the most powerful fast-charging network for electric vehicles in Europe... By 2025, the Group’s brands [VAG] expect to put more than 80 new car models with e-motors on the market, Including 50 pure e-cars and 30 plug-in hybrids. … we are spending a billion euros on building a new plant for electric vehicles”

Apr, 2018

This is AP, the direct of GT development. This sure sound like preparing the faithful for the inevitable conclusion.

“Preuninger sees Porsche always offering the "hobby" cars like the new 911 GT3 RS for track day use, but he also says those very same customers who are voracious in their appetite for performance, precision and the highest level of driving involvement are also very interested in new technologies and new powertrains for their daily commuting car. … "The GT cars were always hobby cars," notes Preuninger ”

GT cars are hobby cars. The rest of you get to buy EVs. LOL So why? Why this push to electric?

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en Read and understand what they are saying.

“By 2021, phased in from 2020, the fleet average to be achieved by all new cars is 95 grams of CO2 per kilometre. ... From 2019, the cost will be €95 from the first gram of exceedance onwards.”

How much CO2 is your Macan putting out? Which model sells the most cars? Oh yeah, the Macan.

@Dkayak wrote: "I don’t believe Porsche would bet the entire company on it. And that’s what it would be, a giant roll of the dice. Their shareholders would not allow it."

What does that mean? Porsche is a brand, one of a dozen or so brands under VW AG. Who owns VAG? 52% of voting stock is owned by the holding company Porsche SE. But 20%? Guess who owns that? @trusted is on track. Its the German Government, Lower Saxony. For a fascinating look at this, check out the time Porsche, the old Porsche company, tried to buyout VW. Now who is sitting in US Federal Prison? VW Executives ... got 7 years. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...entenced-to-7-years-in-prison-for-diesel-role In the history of the automotive world, how many auto executives have ended up with criminal charges and jail time? And then there's the CEO.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/form...iracy-and-wire-fraud-diesel-emissions-scandal

“An indictment was unsealed earlier today charging Martin Winterkorn, 70, the former chairman of the management board of Volkswagen AG (VW), with conspiracy and wire fraud in connection with VW’s long-running scheme to cheat U.S. diesel vehicle emissions requirements.”

Is the Macan going all EV? I have no idea but it would seem the evidence is lining up. Its about numbers. They (i.e. VW) need to get the numbers down, otherwise the entire fleet suffers with huge fines. And the low hanging fruit? Macans. A last thing. Don't think in terms of why you know within the US or Canada. Whether or not charging stations exist is moot. The US is NOT the largest customer anymore. Those days are over. Try not to think of this in terms of what you know for your driving conditions. Think in terms of ... You are a German brand, part of a German conglomerate of brands, bound by EU laws and regulations. You are also bound by US laws if you sell in the US and Chinese if you sell in China, etc. What do you do to profit? How do you make money when the EU has made CO2 restrictions and fines punishing?

Then decide.
 
#33 · (Edited)
What's so insane about it is the other big German manufacturers with less criminal energy seem to have no problem meeting the new emissions testing requirements in Europe by the end of the year. Why? Because at least they tried in the past to come somewhat close. VW Group encouraged by the government not doing anything just gave up. Does anybody think Porsche employees are "investing" their bonuses and scheduled salary increases in Mission E because they want to? They do it because they know that if they can't get that Taycan manufacturing going by the end of 2019 it's lights out. Literally. They work day and night on the construction. I know because I have a friend living next door. Day and night...construction...in Germany? It's do or die...


So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current face lift Macan is the last of the ICE Macan. Supported by seemingly VW Group using generic engines and not developing new Porsche ICE engines for it. Switch over Leipzig plant by 2022 to EV completely? Totally possible imo. IF the Taycan guinea-pig sells.
 
#34 ·
What's so insane about it is the other big German manufacturers with less criminal energy seem to have no problem meeting the new emissions testing requirements in Europe by the end of the year. Why? Because at least they tried in the past to come somewhat close. VW Group encouraged by the government not doing anything just gave up. Does anybody think Porsche employees are "investing" their bonuses and scheduled salary increases in Mission E because they want to? They do it because they know that if they can't get that Taycan manufacturing going by the end of 2019 it's lights out. Literally. They work day and night on the construction. I know because I have a friend living next door. Day and night...construction...in Germany? It's do or die...


So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current face lift Macan is the last of the ICE Macan. Supported by seemingly VW Group using generic engines and not developing new Porsche ICE engines for it. Switch over Leipzig plant by 2022 to EV completely? Totally possible imo. IF the Taycan guinea-pig sells.
If it happens and you want a last-year Macan ICE, you probably need to order at year start and not wait until the end. I suspect the last Macan ICEs will go like hotcakes cause of all the people that haven't drunk the EV Kool-Aid.
 
#42 ·
Since buying my last couple of vehicles, I can't help but think afterwards "Is this the last ICE vehicle I'll ever own?"

It has nothing to do with being a "progressive tree-hugging liberal", but it would be nice to never pay for expensive oil changes, spark plugs, and transmission flushes...and of course gasoline ever again.

Tesla makes a fine vehicle...the only things I guess that hold me back from buying an EV is the current battery technology (longevity & range of only around 320 miles) and the lack of charging stations when taking a long trip. If those problems get solved in the near future, and Porsche comes out with a semi-affordable CUV EV that performs/handles like my current Macan GTS, I'd definitely would buy one.
 
#43 ·
Since buying my last couple of vehicles, I can't help but think afterwards "Is this the last ICE vehicle I'll ever own?"

It has nothing to do with being a "progressive tree-hugging liberal", but it would be nice to never pay for expensive oil changes, spark plugs, and transmission flushes...and of course gasoline ever again.

Tesla makes a fine vehicle...the only things I guess that hold me back from buying an EV is the current battery technology (longevity & range of only around 320 miles) and the lack of charging stations when taking a long trip. If those problems get solved in the near future, and Porsche comes out with a semi-affordable CUV EV that performs/handles like my current Macan GTS, I'd definitely would buy one.

In 20-30 years in might be mainstream and affordable, but ICE is here for the next 20-30 years, I wanted a Electric Lawn Mower, but the cord was a PITA, I wanted battery operated, but it won't last long enough to do my tiny front yard........so I hired a lawn maintenance company........now I don't care, I just come home and its done.

Problem solved.
 
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#47 ·
I have not cut my own lawn in decades (the landscaping business here is so competitive that I can get my full acre cut for $40, at that price I am better off focusing on a different project) but I did notice that my new neighbor has an electric lawnmower. Does a nice job, and he seems to have no problem at all with the battery lasting long enough for him to do his full acre.

Seems like battery technology is advancing at a breakneck speed.
 
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#51 ·
Panamrama, #737 , p. 52. quote:

"Wolfgang Hatz ... was released from jail in Munich after nine months behind bars. His bail amounted to ... $3.5M. Hate was Porsche's former head of research ..."

Anyone thinking Porsche is going to defy EU regulations for enthusiasts or who don't understand what's coming, might want to read the fines in that article - Billions, many Billions.

P. 87. Electric 911

The story of an EV 1979 911 Targa SC. Who saw that coming? Quote:

"... lets be frank for moment ... An electrified 911 seems inevitable. ... as sacrilegious as it might sound ... we'll see a 911 EV."

Why did that article appear? Are they setting up the faithful for the inevitable? Macan will be first. Its a matter of numbers, biggest payback. 911 will be last, for the faithful. The rest will fall in line. Just saying.
 
#53 ·
Panamrama, #737 , p. 52. quote:

"Wolfgang Hatz ... was released from jail in Munich after nine months behind bars. His bail amounted to ... $3.5M. Hate was Porsche's former head of research ..."

Anyone thinking Porsche is going to defy EU regulations for enthusiasts or who don't understand what's coming, might want to read the fines in that article - Billions, many Billions.

P. 87. Electric 911

The story of an EV 1979 911 Targa SC. Who saw that coming? Quote:

"... lets be frank for moment ... An electrified 911 seems inevitable. ... as sacrilegious as it might sound ... we'll see a 911 EV."

Why did that article appear? Are they setting up the faithful for the inevitable? Macan will be first. Its a matter of numbers, biggest payback. 911 will be last, for the faithful. The rest will fall in line. Just saying.
What’s the payback if they invest a lot in R&D and then watch net sales drop unless they can attract more early adopters than they lose in ICE fans? Messing with your cash cow is a big gamble.

I suspect many Macan owners won’t be inclined to jump right in. Not me. I’ll watch and wait. Let others be the Marines. Drive the wheels off my 2017. Or maybe try an X3? See how this experiment goes and how issues like range, charging station distribution, and reliability pan out.
 
#55 ·
They defrauded the US government. Its not a test to game. They are sitting in federal prison. They are criminals in the eyes of US Federal law.

The US Government defrauds its citizens daily..... its called CONGRESS.......and the point is ???

>:D


Its only wrong if you get caught, I bet less than 1/10th of 1% even cared , they want a good running, reliable, fuel efficient vehicle, global warming is way down on anyone's list of priorities, IMHO its a tax on people, a revenue stream just like anything else, a money/power grab.
 
#56 ·
Its only wrong if you get caught, I bet less than 1/10th of 1% even cared , they want a good running, reliable, fuel efficient vehicle, global warming is way down on anyone's list of priorities, IMHO its a tax on people, a revenue stream just like anything else, a money/power grab.

I tend to agree with you on some subjects, but on this, I totally disagree. They defrauded the US government. It has nothing to do with if owners "care". Its not "only wrong" if the get caught. That's the same as saying its only wrong to do any crime "if you get caught". AFAIK, this is the only case of any auto executive sitting in federal prison for crimes against the USA. That's stunning.
 
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