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I’m on a business trip and staying at the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Niquel California, and I’m seeing dozens of people walking around with shirts with the Porsche logo.

So I strike up a conversation with one of them and mention that I own a 996 as well as a Macan.

He mentioned that he has been with PCNA for 10 years and is helping to conduct a Brand Ambassador Level 3 (whatever Level 3 is) training session at the hotel, and further mentions that as of 2022 all Macans will be all electric.

All I can say is that I received the strong impression that he knows what he’s talking about.

After thinking about this and reading the EV stuff in the current Porsche magazine, I'm wondering if he meant hybrids by "all electric"? I could certainly see that by 2022 (as opposed to pure all electric) ...... in which case I would still snare one of the last all-ICE models in 2021.
 
Since buying my last couple of vehicles, I can't help but think afterwards "Is this the last ICE vehicle I'll ever own?"

It has nothing to do with being a "progressive tree-hugging liberal", but it would be nice to never pay for expensive oil changes, spark plugs, and transmission flushes...and of course gasoline ever again.

Tesla makes a fine vehicle...the only things I guess that hold me back from buying an EV is the current battery technology (longevity & range of only around 320 miles) and the lack of charging stations when taking a long trip. If those problems get solved in the near future, and Porsche comes out with a semi-affordable CUV EV that performs/handles like my current Macan GTS, I'd definitely would buy one.
 
Since buying my last couple of vehicles, I can't help but think afterwards "Is this the last ICE vehicle I'll ever own?"

It has nothing to do with being a "progressive tree-hugging liberal", but it would be nice to never pay for expensive oil changes, spark plugs, and transmission flushes...and of course gasoline ever again.

Tesla makes a fine vehicle...the only things I guess that hold me back from buying an EV is the current battery technology (longevity & range of only around 320 miles) and the lack of charging stations when taking a long trip. If those problems get solved in the near future, and Porsche comes out with a semi-affordable CUV EV that performs/handles like my current Macan GTS, I'd definitely would buy one.

In 20-30 years in might be mainstream and affordable, but ICE is here for the next 20-30 years, I wanted a Electric Lawn Mower, but the cord was a PITA, I wanted battery operated, but it won't last long enough to do my tiny front yard........so I hired a lawn maintenance company........now I don't care, I just come home and its done.

Problem solved.
 
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After thinking about this and reading the EV stuff in the current Porsche magazine, I'm wondering if he meant hybrids by "all electric"? I could certainly see that by 2022 (as opposed to pure all electric) ...... in which case I would still snare one of the last all-ICE models in 2021.
I thought the same, and I actually asked him that exact question. He was not referring to hybrids.

Does the guy I spoke to know what he’s talking about? Who knows. He is merely an employee of PCNA who is apparently a sales trainer. Would that level employee be privy to the company plans 4 years down the road? Or perhaps he is privy merely to rumors?

Of course I can’t say, all I can do is report what he told me. But again he left me with the distinct impression that he knew exactly what he was talking about. And there was no indication that what he was telling me was at all confidential nor any sort of surprise. He had no idea who I might be, other than a Porsche customer.
 
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In 20-30 years in might be mainstream and affordable, but ICE is here for the next 20-30 years, I wanted a Electric Lawn Mower, but the cord was a PITA, I wanted battery operated, but it won't last long enough to do my tiny front yard........so I hired a lawn maintenance company........now I don't care, I just come home and its done. Problem solved.
I actually like cutting my lawn, it's one of the few manual tasks around the house I still perform. I've already made the switch to electric when it comes to my lawn string trimmer, blower, and bush trimmer...40v Black & Decker equipment, and they work quite well. No more mixing oil with gas.

As for when EV vehicles will become more mainstream and affordable, I believe half your prediction...10 to 15 yrs. Just about all the big auto/truck manufactures have electric versions now or in their near future. There's even electric scooters, bikes and motorcycles now!

But I agree that ICE will be here for a while yet...maybe another 40 years or so, as long as advancement in green technology continues. Once they perfect stabilizing plasma in a fusion reactor, EVERYTHING will be electric. This event will be the true death knell for the ICE.
 
I have not cut my own lawn in decades (the landscaping business here is so competitive that I can get my full acre cut for $40, at that price I am better off focusing on a different project) but I did notice that my new neighbor has an electric lawnmower. Does a nice job, and he seems to have no problem at all with the battery lasting long enough for him to do his full acre.

Seems like battery technology is advancing at a breakneck speed.
 
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I’m in the camp that most likely it’s not happening by 2022. Hybrid, yes. Full EV...nope.



In my experience, the best salespeople are the ones who drink their own bath water.
This guy was not a sales person. He is an employee of PCNA. Very difficult to imagine that he purposely lied to me. What would be his motivation? And when we had the conversation, we were within earshot of several other people that were part of his group.

But as I mentioned above, I do wonder what details someone at his level would know at this point in time.

In any event, I was very surprised by his comment, and that’s why I took the time to mention the conversation.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
I have not cut my own lawn in decades (the landscaping business here is so competitive that I can get my full acre cut for $40, at that price I am better off focusing on a different project) but I did notice that my new neighbor has an electric lawnmower. Does a nice job, and he seems to have no problem at all with the battery lasting long enough for him to do his full acre.

Seems like battery technology is advancing at a breakneck speed.
My electric lawnmower robot does it for me three times a week. It wakes up automatically, and when it’s finished doing its job it goes back to the charging station. Money very well spent.
 
Panamrama, #737 , p. 52. quote:

"Wolfgang Hatz ... was released from jail in Munich after nine months behind bars. His bail amounted to ... $3.5M. Hate was Porsche's former head of research ..."

Anyone thinking Porsche is going to defy EU regulations for enthusiasts or who don't understand what's coming, might want to read the fines in that article - Billions, many Billions.

P. 87. Electric 911

The story of an EV 1979 911 Targa SC. Who saw that coming? Quote:

"... lets be frank for moment ... An electrified 911 seems inevitable. ... as sacrilegious as it might sound ... we'll see a 911 EV."

Why did that article appear? Are they setting up the faithful for the inevitable? Macan will be first. Its a matter of numbers, biggest payback. 911 will be last, for the faithful. The rest will fall in line. Just saying.
 
No way, I say BS! As if Porsche would do that to their #1 selling product, the Macan.

All electric: That would be a progressive environmental liberal wet dream come true. Maybe all electric for Kalifornia... lol.

All electric is far off, the entire power / fuel infrastructure still would need to be completely overhauled & the tech ejeftric auti tech much improved.
And not even this. First you have all the plastics and toxic materials in the batteries themselves, and then you are still burning fossil fuels for the most part to charge those suckers. Overall, I would say the environmental toxicity is greater. It's just the correct political bandwagon to be on these days. I remember years ago people saying the hp wars were over and we are now in the era of the 800hp Dodges, 750hp Corvettes, many 700hp cars. We will be burning fossil fuels for a long time to come.
 
Panamrama, #737 , p. 52. quote:

"Wolfgang Hatz ... was released from jail in Munich after nine months behind bars. His bail amounted to ... $3.5M. Hate was Porsche's former head of research ..."

Anyone thinking Porsche is going to defy EU regulations for enthusiasts or who don't understand what's coming, might want to read the fines in that article - Billions, many Billions.

P. 87. Electric 911

The story of an EV 1979 911 Targa SC. Who saw that coming? Quote:

"... lets be frank for moment ... An electrified 911 seems inevitable. ... as sacrilegious as it might sound ... we'll see a 911 EV."

Why did that article appear? Are they setting up the faithful for the inevitable? Macan will be first. Its a matter of numbers, biggest payback. 911 will be last, for the faithful. The rest will fall in line. Just saying.
What’s the payback if they invest a lot in R&D and then watch net sales drop unless they can attract more early adopters than they lose in ICE fans? Messing with your cash cow is a big gamble.

I suspect many Macan owners won’t be inclined to jump right in. Not me. I’ll watch and wait. Let others be the Marines. Drive the wheels off my 2017. Or maybe try an X3? See how this experiment goes and how issues like range, charging station distribution, and reliability pan out.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
My electric lawnmower robot does it for me three times a week. It wakes up automatically, and when it’s finished doing its job it goes back to the charging station. Money very well spent.
I was going to post about the robot one as well. To me it is all excuses.
Perhaps, but I revisit all those excuses with a smile of satisfaction on my face whenever I see the robot mowing (seldom, since I use that time to do other, more useful things).
 
They defrauded the US government. Its not a test to game. They are sitting in federal prison. They are criminals in the eyes of US Federal law.

The US Government defrauds its citizens daily..... its called CONGRESS.......and the point is ???

>:D


Its only wrong if you get caught, I bet less than 1/10th of 1% even cared , they want a good running, reliable, fuel efficient vehicle, global warming is way down on anyone's list of priorities, IMHO its a tax on people, a revenue stream just like anything else, a money/power grab.
 
Its only wrong if you get caught, I bet less than 1/10th of 1% even cared , they want a good running, reliable, fuel efficient vehicle, global warming is way down on anyone's list of priorities, IMHO its a tax on people, a revenue stream just like anything else, a money/power grab.

I tend to agree with you on some subjects, but on this, I totally disagree. They defrauded the US government. It has nothing to do with if owners "care". Its not "only wrong" if the get caught. That's the same as saying its only wrong to do any crime "if you get caught". AFAIK, this is the only case of any auto executive sitting in federal prison for crimes against the USA. That's stunning.
 
I am most definitely not a tree hugger, and much of the time think that the EPA has wildly overstepped its mandate, and is a prime example of bureaucracy out of control.

But if you lived in the greater Los Angeles area 40 or 50 years ago without question you realize how much they and other governmental agencies have achieved in terms of vehicle emissions. I think it’s a truly remarkable how the automobile manufacturers have been able to meet the current pollution regulations that seemed totally impossible not that long ago.

The amount of pollutants that the VAG diesel vehicles dumped into the air here in the United States is well documented and is absolutely astounding. They were not just slightly exceeding the regulations.

Just as bad, once they knew they were caught it’s now well-documented how it cost us taxpayers tens of millions of dollars to fight them because they continued to lie to us.

My opinion is that the company and the executives that knew what was going on got off way way too easy. Unfortunately I don’t think they were punished to the extent that we can rule out someone else trying something like this again. Any company that would consider doing so should be in mortal fear of being caught.
 
What’s the payback if they invest a lot in R&D and then watch net sales drop unless they can attract more early adopters than they lose in ICE fans? Messing with your cash cow is a big gamble.
I don't think your seeing what is going on here. They aren't gambling anything. They are being told to go EV or go home, due to fines. I can't explain it again. Just go look up the fines. It will put them out of business if they do not comply. Its got nothing to do with the EPA, nothing to do with Cafe Standards, and nothing to do with pollution. It's all about EU CO2 regulations. And - it has nothing to do with the USA. They can do whatever they want and it does not effect us, other than your choice will be limited for the VW branded cars. Lots of Japanese, Korean, and American cars exist.

I am most definitely not a tree hugger, and much of the time think that the EPA has wildly overstepped its mandate, and is a prime example of bureaucracy out of control.

But if you lived in the greater Los Angeles area 40 or 50 years ago without question you realize how much they and other governmental agencies have achieved in terms of vehicle emissions. I think it’s a truly remarkable how the automobile manufacturers have been able to meet the current pollution regulations that seemed totally impossible not that long ago.
You see, many people have no living memory*of that. They were not alive. The didn't see, live through, or understand SMOG. Its just a word to them. And its true, the EPA regulations cleaned up much of the SMOG. The problem with this is that they just can't quit. They moved on to "saving the world from climate change". But I agree with the SMOG. AFAIK, that problem is gone or greatly alleviated compared to 1970.
 
I don't think your seeing what is going on here. They aren't gambling anything. They are being told to go EV or go home, due to fines. I can't explain it again. Just go look up the fines. It will put them out of business if they do not comply. Its got nothing to do with the EPA, nothing to do with Cafe Standards, and nothing to do with pollution. It's all about EU CO2 regulations. And - it has nothing to do with the USA. They can do whatever they want and it does not effect us, other than your choice will be limited for the VW branded cars. Lots of Japanese, Korean, and American cars exist.
And products of the huge BMW plant in South Carolina. Or the Mercedes plant in Alabama. It will be interesting to see to what extent these brands are able to find enough sales to preserve a market presence outside of Europe.
 
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You see, many people have no living memory*of that. They were not alive. The didn't see, live through, or understand SMOG. Its just a word to them. And its true, the EPA regulations cleaned up much of the SMOG. The problem with this is that they just can't quit. They moved on to "saving the world from climate change". But I agree with the SMOG. AFAIK, that problem is gone or greatly alleviated compared to 1970.
No, the EU just doesn't have a choice anymore...it's really about over population and air quality. People got to breath and eat you know.

"The road transport sector was the largest contributor to total NOx emissions and the second largest emitter of BC in 2015"

https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/air-quality-in-europe-2017

And once the air quality gets to the point in this country where even our now decimated EPA states it's unhealthy for people and crops, the U.S. will start adopting draconian measures as well.
 
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