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This is being engineered by the European Enviromental wackos. Rest assured that if it does happen (a big if) that there will be a run on the last gas-propelled Macans .... and that demand and price will skyrocket for used ones once production ceases (as happened with the 2012 RAV4 with the V6 engine.)


I - for one - will be buying another one early in the last production year.
 
The whole world will be a giant crater looking for lithium that does not exist for all the dreams of finding lithium, it requires the same mining technique as gold, dig up a million acres of land for enough lithium to build 100 batteries.............way to go improving environmental impact.


Then we have to solve the already straining electrical demands on just peoples needs for heat and AC, and that that pesky charge time, who wants to wait hours for a EV Charge port to open up while traveling, can you imagine waiting 5-10 mins to pump gas or diesel and then being faced with 2-3 hours waiting for a charging station to become available.............LOL.


Pie in the Sky PIPEDREAMS is all that is............never happening in my lifetime, I turn 50 next year, I'll be old and grey and in my 80's before EV becomes mainstream.


And do not forget the subsidized costs and the battery life issue/disposal costs.


Its sounds nice to talk about it, unless the heavy hand of Government bans fossil fuel vehicles its never happening, reminds me of the RUSH song from the 2112 Album "Red Barchetta"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
And I'd like to know how they will build a public charging network sufficient to handle long travel. Tesla has been at it a long while already. And I'd still not like having to stop every 250 miles to charge for half an hour. I certainly wouldn't buy one.
Many of us would just have to say no, as it rules out long trips, especially off the beaten track.

I don’t believe Porsche would bet the entire company on it. And that’s what it would be, a giant roll of the dice. Their shareholders would not allow it.
 
Porsche is under VW Group control. VW is (unofficially but very real) under German government control. So Porsche may not have much of a say. VW Group were cheating on their engines emissions for years. Everybody knew but no one intervened. Easy money with inferior (emissions wise) and cheaper to develop engines. Now they are years behind in R&D. The new RDE testing in Europe is the nail in the coffin if implemented as scheduled. For Porsche it's about survival currently - nothing less! They are in big trouble...can't get my new 718 done anywhere near the promised date. Because they are banging out all the 911 they can at the moment. Production capacity is limited because of Taycan assembly line construction. It's pure panic in Zuffenhausen.



There is an election in Germany in 2021...the last hope for ICE Porsche imo. If not I see a mid engine Corvette in my very near future.
 
Interesting to see the different POV's.
I personally think that EV is the future. If you look around from F1 to road cars it is already happening.
Now why would Porsche do this to their #1 selling model simple, there is no better way to push the agenda ahead. If you want one this is the only one you are going to get. If you ask me it is a master stroke.
As for how long it is going to take to charge one and the infrastructure needed to build a charging net work. Be honest when was the last time you went to gas station and in and out in 5 minutes :) I bet the average time a consumer spends in the gas station is closer to 10 mins. With the proposed charging network a Taycan will be at 80% in 15 minutes. Thanks to dieselgate VW is going to build a Charging network in US. I think the initial investment is going to be around $2 b.
In Canada they will be building 32 of those charging stations.
 
Interesting to see the different POV's.
I personally think that EV is the future. If you look around from F1 to road cars it is already happening.
Now why would Porsche do this to their #1 selling model simple, there is no better way to push the agenda ahead. If you want one this is the only one you are going to get. If you ask me it is a master stroke.
As for how long it is going to take to charge one and the infrastructure needed to build a charging net work. Be honest when was the last time you went to gas station and in and out in 5 minutes :) I bet the average time a consumer spends in the gas station is closer to 10 mins. With the proposed charging network a Taycan will be at 80% in 15 minutes. Thanks to dieselgate VW is going to build a Charging network in US. I think the initial investment is going to be around $2 b.
In Canada they will be building 32 of those charging stations.

We then have to assess a system of taxation for EV vehicles, that leads to GPS tracking of miles and a levy every single month as a use/mileage tax.

How many people will be willing to allow BIG BROTHER unlimited data to track your speed, an entire route from start to finish, I can see politicians levying speeding fines once real time data tracking is implemented.


Do not forget the ability to turn off your vehicle or take control of it via WIFI, so if you do not pay the bill, they shut your vehicle off.

I will hold onto an older more simpler vehicle as long as I can, the very reason I am rebuilding a 50 year 1968 Chevelle Malibu, it runs off a distributor and a carb, no way for anyone to take control, track or shut it down.

Think of the freedom lost with this scheme to go EV.

Not for me............:D
 
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And I'd like to know how they will build a public charging network sufficient to handle long travel. Tesla has been at it a long while already. And I'd still not like having to stop every 250 miles to charge for half an hour. I certainly wouldn't buy one.
I may have an answer to that. Porsche is rolling out a Porsche recharge card service (“Porsche Charging Service”, most likely adding yet another acronym to the Porsche jargon) that gives Porsche plug-in hybrid car owners access to already-existing recharging stations owned or operated by third parties. This has just been launched in Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Finland and Denmark, and according to Porsche their intention is to expand the network fast. My wife got yesterday the information from Porsche Switzerland; it works in a way that you pay a tiny monthly fee to Porsche (around 3 bucks), and then Porsche charges you every month for the actual recharges made on partner stations: parkings, highway service areas, dealerships, public stations inside cities... So Porsche won’t be building its own network, and anyway my thoughts are that if any additional network is built, it will be Volkswagen’s.

I’m attaching a screenshot of Porsche’s dedicated site which shows how the network looks like right now. Not bad, for a start. The biggest problem is that the pricing is not good (just like in any existing recharging network in Europe, unfortunately); the price of the recharges is quite high depending on the country, and in some cases, like in Switzerland, it’s based on charging time (!!??) whereas in some other countries you get charged by actual consumption (Kw), and in others the charge is a flat fee (which makes it uninteresting for first-gen plug-in owners). Also, for the time being there is one single station in Spain, only 19 in Italy, and the coverage in such a huge and central territory as France is extremely limited.

I have the impression that there is a lot of momentum supporting this technology in Europe, and the move to electrified mobility seems to be unfolding fast.
 

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We then have to assess a system of taxation for EV vehicles, that leads to GPS tracking of miles and a levy every single month as a use/mileage tax.

How many people will be willing to allow BIG BROTHER unlimited data to track your speed, an entire route from start to finish, I can see politicians levying speeding fines once real time data tracking is implemented.


Do not forget the ability to turn off your vehicle or take control of it via WIFI, so if you do not pay the bill, they shut your vehicle off.

I will hold onto an older more simpler vehicle as long as I can, the very reason I am rebuilding a 50 year 1968 Chevelle Malibu, it runs off a distributor and a carb, no way for anyone to take control, track or shut it down.

Think of the freedom lost with this scheme to go EV.

Not for me............:D
Educate me here. I am not familiar with the Use.mileage tax you are referring to. I am not from US :) How is this currently handled?
Big brother tracking you ? It is already happening. Do you have a smart phone? Do you have GPS on your vehicle they have all the data they want already.
The car manufacturers (as long as it is newer car with GPS kill ) already have the ability to shout down a vehicle if they want.
 
From the latest edition of Porsche Magazine which I received yesterday ....

"For Porsche, the future is electric. The company wants to shift to electromobility before all other German auto manufacturers. By 2025 the aim is for every second Porsche sold to have an electric drive unit, with half the models purely electric and the other half plug-in hybrids."

There is also an interview with Stefan Weckbach who is in charge of developing the Taycan model range. Here is what he says,

"Electrification is a significant part of our product strategy, which comprises three pillars. The first pillar is represented by the puristic sports cars with internal combustion engines, while the second is made up of our hybrid vehicles. The third pillar, the fully electric vehicles, points the way to the future. This triad means that we can cover the entire market spectrum and satisfy all our customer needs."

From the horses mouth. I would trust the mag way before a sales rep.
 
I would not dismiss the OP’s post out of hand. Here’s why.

Lets start with Rennteam, an EU auto enthusiasts board. Sometimes those guys have some insight we in NA do not. Click on rennteam.com (can’t direct link), click on Porsche then Macan, then the ALL tab. Click on Bye bye Macan. The first post is by the mod talking about next gen Macan. It says Macan Electric, Hybrid & EV? By 2022 and every second Porsche by 2023. Where did he get that? Lets follow the timeline. Maybe this:

June 2017 https://translate.google.com/transl...eug-soll-bald-elektroauto-sein-a-1153417.html

Read the translation yourself but it says by 2023 ever other Porsche will have an electric drive - maybe that means hybrid or EV. And by 2022, it will be the Macan. The CEO wants the next gen Macan to only be electric. Read the article.

Sept, 2017

The Volkswagen Group launches the most comprehensive electrification initiative in the automotive industry with “Roadmap E”

That’s not Mission E. That’s Roadmap E for all VAG. This is the VAG CEO speaking, former PAG CEO. “The transformation in our industry is unstoppable. And we will lead that transformation,” said Müller.” Read the words of the CEO carefully. VAG intends to lead the way to electrification. Since VAG is the biggest of second biggest carmaker in the world, that says something.

Nov, 2017


https://www.volkswagenag.com/presen...ber/PR66 Conference Call 20112017_Website.pdf

This the VW strategic plan. Read it and weep (figuratively) See the three electrification waves. Those aren't Mission E. That's all the brands.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/electric-porsche-macan-could-be-a-possibility-121913.html

“One of those vehicles is an electric Macan, described by Porsche Cars North America chief executive officer Klaus Zellmer as “a possibility for us.”Considering that Porsche is investing more than 3 billion euros (almost $3.6 billion) over the next five years toward electrification, offering a Macan-like EV is not a question of “if” but a matter of “when.”

http://europe.autonews.com/article/...-eu-emissions-targets-with-electrified-lineup

“When asked about the second EV in store by 2025, Steiner did not confirm an electric Macan but said Porsche would not go with another sports car.” No sports car? That leaves Macan, Cayenne, and Panamera.

Mar, 2018

Porsche Annual Report, “Annual and Sustainability Report of Porsche AG 2017” CEO:

“...The pan-European high-power charging network IONITY by Porsche, Audi, BMW, Daimler and Ford is now charting a course towards the establishment of the most powerful fast-charging network for electric vehicles in Europe... By 2025, the Group’s brands [VAG] expect to put more than 80 new car models with e-motors on the market, Including 50 pure e-cars and 30 plug-in hybrids. … we are spending a billion euros on building a new plant for electric vehicles”

Apr, 2018

This is AP, the direct of GT development. This sure sound like preparing the faithful for the inevitable conclusion.

“Preuninger sees Porsche always offering the "hobby" cars like the new 911 GT3 RS for track day use, but he also says those very same customers who are voracious in their appetite for performance, precision and the highest level of driving involvement are also very interested in new technologies and new powertrains for their daily commuting car. … "The GT cars were always hobby cars," notes Preuninger ”

GT cars are hobby cars. The rest of you get to buy EVs. LOL So why? Why this push to electric?

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en Read and understand what they are saying.

“By 2021, phased in from 2020, the fleet average to be achieved by all new cars is 95 grams of CO2 per kilometre. ... From 2019, the cost will be €95 from the first gram of exceedance onwards.”

How much CO2 is your Macan putting out? Which model sells the most cars? Oh yeah, the Macan.

@Dkayak wrote: "I don’t believe Porsche would bet the entire company on it. And that’s what it would be, a giant roll of the dice. Their shareholders would not allow it."

What does that mean? Porsche is a brand, one of a dozen or so brands under VW AG. Who owns VAG? 52% of voting stock is owned by the holding company Porsche SE. But 20%? Guess who owns that? @trusted is on track. Its the German Government, Lower Saxony. For a fascinating look at this, check out the time Porsche, the old Porsche company, tried to buyout VW. Now who is sitting in US Federal Prison? VW Executives ... got 7 years. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...entenced-to-7-years-in-prison-for-diesel-role In the history of the automotive world, how many auto executives have ended up with criminal charges and jail time? And then there's the CEO.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/form...iracy-and-wire-fraud-diesel-emissions-scandal

“An indictment was unsealed earlier today charging Martin Winterkorn, 70, the former chairman of the management board of Volkswagen AG (VW), with conspiracy and wire fraud in connection with VW’s long-running scheme to cheat U.S. diesel vehicle emissions requirements.”

Is the Macan going all EV? I have no idea but it would seem the evidence is lining up. Its about numbers. They (i.e. VW) need to get the numbers down, otherwise the entire fleet suffers with huge fines. And the low hanging fruit? Macans. A last thing. Don't think in terms of why you know within the US or Canada. Whether or not charging stations exist is moot. The US is NOT the largest customer anymore. Those days are over. Try not to think of this in terms of what you know for your driving conditions. Think in terms of ... You are a German brand, part of a German conglomerate of brands, bound by EU laws and regulations. You are also bound by US laws if you sell in the US and Chinese if you sell in China, etc. What do you do to profit? How do you make money when the EU has made CO2 restrictions and fines punishing?

Then decide.
 
Within our lifetime we will see almost all new cars will be hybrid or full electric and autonomous. Our grand kids will not need to know how to drive..SAD... You will see people drive only in race tracks... then that will go away....
 
What's so insane about it is the other big German manufacturers with less criminal energy seem to have no problem meeting the new emissions testing requirements in Europe by the end of the year. Why? Because at least they tried in the past to come somewhat close. VW Group encouraged by the government not doing anything just gave up. Does anybody think Porsche employees are "investing" their bonuses and scheduled salary increases in Mission E because they want to? They do it because they know that if they can't get that Taycan manufacturing going by the end of 2019 it's lights out. Literally. They work day and night on the construction. I know because I have a friend living next door. Day and night...construction...in Germany? It's do or die...


So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current face lift Macan is the last of the ICE Macan. Supported by seemingly VW Group using generic engines and not developing new Porsche ICE engines for it. Switch over Leipzig plant by 2022 to EV completely? Totally possible imo. IF the Taycan guinea-pig sells.
 
What's so insane about it is the other big German manufacturers with less criminal energy seem to have no problem meeting the new emissions testing requirements in Europe by the end of the year. Why? Because at least they tried in the past to come somewhat close. VW Group encouraged by the government not doing anything just gave up. Does anybody think Porsche employees are "investing" their bonuses and scheduled salary increases in Mission E because they want to? They do it because they know that if they can't get that Taycan manufacturing going by the end of 2019 it's lights out. Literally. They work day and night on the construction. I know because I have a friend living next door. Day and night...construction...in Germany? It's do or die...


So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current face lift Macan is the last of the ICE Macan. Supported by seemingly VW Group using generic engines and not developing new Porsche ICE engines for it. Switch over Leipzig plant by 2022 to EV completely? Totally possible imo. IF the Taycan guinea-pig sells.
If it happens and you want a last-year Macan ICE, you probably need to order at year start and not wait until the end. I suspect the last Macan ICEs will go like hotcakes cause of all the people that haven't drunk the EV Kool-Aid.
 
IF the Taycan guinea-pig sells.
Taycan is not a guinea pig. Its a revolution, not the normal evolutionary progress Porsche makes. Its a matter of survival, or they die. Just read the annual report. Its all in there.

Charging stations to cover densely populated Europe and US coastal regions are economically feasible. Who will invest in charging stations in flyover states? Ever drive across Kansas or Nebraska, especially off the Interstate?
Again, this has nothing to do with the USA. Nowhere does anything say anything about EV becoming mainstream in the US. The current market is about 1%. Just watch what happens as the Tesla incentives dry up. Bye Bye market place. Tesla will be the first automaker to lose the federal tax credit for electric cars Now there is something going on with the CEO and the SEC with tweets about privatization https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/08/tesla-likely-to-face-sec-investigation-following-musk-tweets.html.

Just because Porsche might sell EV only Macans doesn't mean all that much to the US market as a whole. Macans represent a tiny fraction of the SUV marketplace. Customers who don't like EV will go buy their Escalades or whatever. Remember, auto enthusiasts are a small part of the consumer marketplace. Most consumers couldn't tell you the number of cylinders. The cars are toasters. Buy it. Use it. Throw it away.

I've driven across both KS and NE, two of the MOST boring states that exist in terms of driving. Endless wheat and Endless corn. But YOU have choice. Don't want EV, buy ICE. The US is not the EU. We have choice and as far as I can see will continue to do so unless one or the other party gains a supermajority. Even then, it will change. That is what separate the US. Change will occur again and again and as the change occurs, the laws change. Assuming things stay permanent is a bad assumption as the laws can and do change.
 
Taycan is not a guinea pig. Its a revolution, not the normal evolutionary progress Porsche makes. Its a matter of survival, or they die. Just read the annual report. Its all in there.
Agreed. Unless something dramatic happens in the next election there, Porsche's future will be a manufacturer of electric powered SUV and Sedan. Plus some hybrid/turbo/GT 911 two door sports car line to preserve the image. These will probably be numbered as Ferrari and the like...:( It's going to be expensive... :(
 
No way, I say BS! ... a progressive environmental liberal wet dream come true. Maybe all electric for Kalifornia... lol.
Ok, that truly made me LAUGH out LOUD.
:)
I'm actually hoping this happens sooner rather than later.
Two reasons:
1. Value of our Macan ICE models should commensurately increase. (I'm a "buy and hold" kind of owner and will use a certified indy after my warranty runs out in 2021. I'm setting aside a reserve fund now.)

2. Diminished demand for dino fuel should commensurately decrease gas prices, minimizing tho not eliminating the dip into my retirement accts to pay for gas. My wife and I have developed "lead foot" disease which is draining my wallet faster than I can replenish it!!
 
Taycan is not a guinea pig. Its a revolution, not the normal evolutionary progress Porsche makes. Its a matter of survival, or they die. Just read the annual report. Its all in there.



Again, this has nothing to do with the USA. Nowhere does anything say anything about EV becoming mainstream in the US. The current market is about 1%. Just watch what happens as the Tesla incentives dry up. Bye Bye market place. Tesla will be the first automaker to lose the federal tax credit for electric cars Now there is something going on with the CEO and the SEC with tweets about privatization https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/08/tesla-likely-to-face-sec-investigation-following-musk-tweets.html.

Just because Porsche might sell EV only Macans doesn't mean all that much to the US market as a whole. Macans represent a tiny fraction of the SUV marketplace. Customers who don't like EV will go buy their Escalades or whatever. Remember, auto enthusiasts are a small part of the consumer marketplace. Most consumers couldn't tell you the number of cylinders. The cars are toasters. Buy it. Use it. Throw it away.

I've driven across both KS and NE, two of the MOST boring states that exist in terms of driving. Endless wheat and Endless corn. But YOU have choice. Don't want EV, buy ICE. The US is not the EU. We have choice and as far as I can see will continue to do so unless one or the other party gains a supermajority. Even then, it will change. That is what separate the US. Change will occur again and again and as the change occurs, the laws change. Assuming things stay permanent is a bad assumption as the laws can and do change.
Agreed on the desolate Great Plains, not that the Great Corn Sea here in the Midwest is a beautiful landscape. My point is just that coverage of charging stations will rule out EV’s for those of us doing long treks across such areas. If your lifestyle includes long trips in/across sparsely populated areas, you’ll need to stick with ICE or hybrids.

You can be certain that market will be served even if Porsche abandons it. I’m OK either way I guess. As you point out Grim, we have many options if/when Porsche drops us. BMW has a massive plant in S.Carolina and it’s clearly aimed at the U.S. market (as well as export).

The same principle applies to Cayenne owners who utilize its 7700 lb towing capacity. The F150 will do the job quite nicely.
 
What's so insane about it is the other big German manufacturers with less criminal energy seem to have no problem meeting the new emissions testing requirements in Europe by the end of the year. Why? Because at least they tried in the past to come somewhat close. VW Group encouraged by the government not doing anything just gave up. Does anybody think Porsche employees are "investing" their bonuses and scheduled salary increases in Mission E because they want to? They do it because they know that if they can't get that Taycan manufacturing going by the end of 2019 it's lights out. Literally. They work day and night on the construction. I know because I have a friend living next door. Day and night...construction...in Germany? It's do or die...


So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current face lift Macan is the last of the ICE Macan. Supported by seemingly VW Group using generic engines and not developing new Porsche ICE engines for it. Switch over Leipzig plant by 2022 to EV completely? Totally possible imo. IF the Taycan guinea-pig sells.

I would not say they were criminals.........they just used the system to game it, same as any business does, they work within the system to comply and if they can get away with bending the rules or breaking them they do....>:D

The EPA mandated that it pass a "TEST"...........which it does pass the test, so in effect they were compliant with the testing, I look at it this way, a volcano farting ash or the CA fires cause more air quality issues than what the VW group did with respect to their cheating.

But with respect to EV vs. ICE, its the same as SONY Betamax vs VHS, ICE are VHS, more widely accepted, more mainstream, and what consumers want, where as EV may be better but its still a BETAMAX, it will eventually be a relic in history just like Betamax is, 8 tracks and cassette tapes.

The market drives what companies do and if it not making a profit its not worth doing, feeling good about something does not make it mainstream, worthwhile or even smart business wise.

I would love a TESLA, I drove one, but for $175K I would buy a 911 Turbo, because its going to allow me to drive it anywhere, anytime and fill up and keep going without a range limit to wait for a charge.

So economically even a $75K EV I would rather a Boxster or Cayman or pre-owned 911, because I like ICE more than I do EV.

Some city dwellers who take short trips and never leave a city and want to feel good about EV can have one, and when they need batteries for $6k-$12k its a throw away car, as that is an excessive cost to absorb for batteries and disposal.

I have owned vehicles that went 20 years and 400k miles, an EV battery would need 3 or 4 expensive replacements to even stay on the road that long, and it becomes economically not viable to keep replacing them, it cost prohibitive.........:(

If you want one, buy one, I would rather buy gasoline and diesel............to each their own
 
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I would not say they were criminals
For anyone who thinks Volkswagen and its executives were not guilty of criminal actions and merely thought they were bending the rules, watch the first episode of the Netflix series Dirty Money that is titled Hard NOx. I suggest you will find it very convincing.
 
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