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Discussion Starter #3
What would that do to the values of used German cars?
Hm... I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if it increased the value/price due to increased demand, since the overall cost would still be lower than a new car, and people that would have bought new may be more likely to buy used.

I'm no economist, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited by Moderator)
The vast majority of the GOP wants nothing to do with a trade war, so I'm hoping they will sit him down and that this is a lot of bluster that amounts to nothing. The problem is that the White House seems to have actually put together an announcement for the steel/aluminum tariffs, which is what Europe was responding to, which is what led to Trump to making this announcement. And tariffs are something he can actually do without Congressional support.

Anyhow, I'm glad I purchased my Macan last month, this could definitely spoil my plans for a 718 Cayman.
 

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I've had two delete two posts and edit two more because of a direct violation of rule 15

"Domestic ...political or religious discussions are not appropriate for an automotive forum and will be deleted from any subforum. Continued political postings will result in infractions, and ultimately, a ban."

The first one was free. The next one will be costly. Please do NOT make political comments of any kind in this forum.

thank you

ps. that does not mean you cannot discuss tariffs, obviously thats real. it means you cannot attack any one, any party, of a political nature.
 

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Really? After I EXPLICTLY said NO POLITICAL COMMENTS some one just had to make another? Good job at ruining this for everyone else.

Closed.
 

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I've reopened this thread. The idea of talking about steel imports is obviously car related. Its not Macan specific so I moved in it of USA (Macan regional) into OT Lounge. Discussing the ramifications of such actions is fine. Discussion politics is forbidden.

This is old news and 10% less than the original proposal. It was 35%. The steel tariffs are a pittance. You already pay more in CAFE fines, and not realize it. Steel Tariffs are estimated at 1/2 of 1%. On a $80,000 car thats $400. That's not going to stop anyone from buying a Macan nor will it stop someone from buying $25,000 Accord. From CNBC, start at 1:00. Don't believe all the hype on the TV. The world is not going to end. You will be able to buy your new car just fine.

OTH a 25% tariff on cars, IMO, ain't going to happen. Do you really think a 25% price hike will be acceptable to normal people (in lieu of people buying $80,000 cars) when they pick up their $25,000 Honda Accord and suddenly it costs $31,250? Thats the difference between being able to buy a family sedan and not being able to afford one. All **** will break out. Remember Porsches are a niche market. Nobody cares about them. The real market for middle America is Japanese imports, those Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus, Nissans, etc. Family cars sold in the millions.

Deep breaths - in, out, in out. All will be well. :)

 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've reopened this thread. The idea of talking about steel imports is obviously car related. Its not Macan specific so I moved in it of USA (Macan regional) into OT Lounge. Discussing the ramifications of such actions is fine. Discussion politics is forbidden.



This is old news and 10% less than the original proposal. It was 35%. The steel tariffs are a pittance. You already pay more in CAFE fines, and not realize it. Steel Tariffs are estimated at 1/2 of 1%. On a $80,000 car thats $400. That's not going to stop anyone from buying a Macan nor will it stop someone from buying $25,000 Accord. From CNBC, start at 1:00. Don't believe all the hype on the TV. The world is not going to end. You will be able to buy your new car just fine.

OTH a 25% tariff on cars, IMO, ain't going to happen. Do you really think a 25% price hike will be acceptable to normal people (in lieu of people buying $80,000 cars) when they pick up their $25,000 Honda Accord and suddenly it costs $31,250? Thats the difference between being able to buy a family sedan and not being able to afford one. All **** will break out. Remember Porsches are a niche market. Nobody cares about them. The real market for middle America is Japanese imports, those Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus, Nissans, etc. Family cars sold in the millions.

Deep breaths - in, out, in out. All will be well. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrVADC083xk
Would the threatened tariff affect non-European cars? It's a pretty confusing subject, actually, there are a lot of rules regarding what types of tariffs can be placed. I think it's easier for a president to place one on an industry (ie steel) than on a particular country or place (ie Europe).

And while I made the original post, I definitely thought about how lucky we are on this forum to even be able to worry about how it would affect the cost of Porsches, in particular. It's not something the majority of people out there would even get to consider.
 

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Probably the biggest impact will be on where each automaker decides to build each model to remain competitive and profitable. Sourcing is a delicate balance of costs: labor, transportation, finished components, raw materials. If we go down this road, some models may be moved offshore where steel can be found at globally competitive prices.

Prices are not set by totalling up your costs and adding your desired margin. They’re set by the consumer market. Your costs only determine how much you earn at that market price. Unless you operate in a protected market.

Protected markets can be interesting. I flew into Buenos Aires in 1990 and took a taxi into town. It was a brand new Ford Falcon, complete with 1960’s bench seats and 3-on-the-tree transmission! Pretty cool to a visitor. Dinosaurs survive in such markets. Jurassic Park for cars. Not so great for consumers though.
 

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Oh, I have words, but that'll cross the "any one, any party, of a political nature" rule, so I'll have to save that for the proper venues....

I will say that seeing how quickly politicians will start a trade war ("petty" doesn't evaporate when they're in office) as it's been 2 days and everyone's already levying threats at each other; if this starts really happening and countries band together in retaliation, the U.S won't win. But hey, if we get to a near future of market-reaction psychosis by way of insane movements based on what "clap back" (that will effect the welfare of regular citizens) a politician of one country says to another, then maybe while we're in a financial windfall, my Ford stock and 991.1 value will benefit. :rolleyes:
 

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I hope there won't be a trade war, but whatever the price increase may be on my ordered Macan S (May delivery)...all I know is I won't be the one paying it. And if the dealership doesn't pay for the increase either, then they can keep their new shiny Porsche when it arrives.

On principle alone, not one red cent of my money would ever go towards this idiotic tariff, and I'll just continue to drive my Mercedes-Benz.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I hope there won't be a trade war, but whatever the price increase may be on my ordered Macan S (May delivery)...all I know is I won't be the one paying it. And if the dealership doesn't pay for the increase either, then they can keep their new shiny Porsche when it arrives.

On principle alone, not one red cent of my money would ever go towards this idiotic tariff, and I'll just continue to drive my Mercedes-Benz.
I would think the agreed price would be honored, right? I don't know how this works tho.

I agree with Grim, though, it's highly unlikely to actually occur.
 

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I would think the agreed price would be honored, right? I don't know how this works tho.
I should hope so, but this is new territory for me as well.

At this point in time, I have a signed copy of the P&S, and the dealership has a deposit of $2,500 from my credit card.

I wonder how much the trade-in value of my 2016 C450 would increase if the tariff were to happen?
 

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Would the threatened tariff affect non-European cars? It's a pretty confusing subject, actually, there are a lot of rules regarding what types of tariffs can be placed. I think it's easier for a president to place one on an industry (ie steel) than on a particular country or place (ie Europe).
We need to separate out the difference between Tariffs on steel vs tariffs on cars. Tariffs are taxes, of course.

In 1975, so that the public would no longer wait in gas lines and the days of odd/even buying would be over (if you are old enough, you will know what that means), the US started to "incentivize", that is fine or tax imported cars based of gas mileage, known as CAFE standards. The fine is $55 per mpg over the standard. How many people, or Porsche owners, know this fine is being paid? And you are paying it. Don't think for a second its coming from corporate profits, no its coming from you who bought the car. You can find the numbers on line but the last published figure for 2004 was Porsche paid ~$200 fine per car/avg. for not meeting the standards. That's 14 years ago. Here is a list through 2012. Porsche paid maybe $3M in fines in 2011. The fines almost TRIPLED to $14 per mpg recently. I'm going to guess prices once again will go up to cover the fines and not take profits from VW AG stockholders. I'm only bringing up CAFE fines because I doubt many people even realize its being paid as its probably buried in the MSRP, just like the steel tariffs will be. I also assume it will be all countries, I guess we know next week.

A 25% tariff (i.e., tax) on imported cars is much more devastating on people. OTH, I doubt many people will notice steel tariffs just like they don't notice the CAFE fines, in that's basically, its small amounts that might get absorbed in yearly price hikes. Unless the Media goes crazy as they tend to do and blow it out of proportion. Do you see the Media going crazy with articles on the CAFE fines? I don't. They never talk about that unless some company is cheating. Not true on a 25% tariff. That, you will notice.

US car tariffs is 2.5% on cars. EU is 10%. China is around 25% (this last number came from Wilbur Ross this morning). How is that fair. Why should a German pay 10% more for Corvette than an American? Yet to buy that Porsche the tax only 2.5%? This is all about the trade deficit. After WWII the US had large trade surpluses. That ended in 1975. Trade deficits or surplus is part of GDP. So while tariffs might hurt you individually in that it pushes the price of the car higher, that is EXACTLY what the EU is doing to American cars, nm the Chinese. How is it fair that for US companies to sell a car in Europe, the car cost 10% than in the US while the European car cost 2.5% more? In what world does that make sense? I'll tell you what world ...

It made sense in the 50s when Europe was rebuilding after the war. It made perfect sense in 1975 when Europe was still coming out of wars and Germany was two nations. It no longer makes sense. The argument I see them making is why is the US paying Europe's way anymore? Why is the US protecting the German car industry? Of course after decades of US paying their way, they aren't going to like this one bit. If it happens, my guess is ALL Tariffs are dropped. Tariffs are protectionist policy. The EU is "protecting" the European Car industry. And the US can't protect its Car Industry? At one time GM was the largest company in the world. So it might have made sense for Europe to protect its car industry. Those days are long gone.

But, its all beyond me. They'll figure it out. It makes my head hurt.
 

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I will say that seeing how quickly politicians will start a trade war ("petty" doesn't evaporate when they're in office) as it's been 2 days and everyone's already levying threats at each other; if this starts really happening and countries band together in retaliation, the U.S won't win.
:) History: Except for Adm Yamamoto, who knew better having been educated in the US, didn't Japan say something like that in the 30s? ;)

This is being overblown. Media gets hyped up over nothing. LOOK - MAGIC MUSHROOMS! - No LOOK - Magic Pumpkins

This is only my guess, of course, but believe something when it actually happens, and not the hype TV stations throw at you. They need you to watch their commercials and websites need you to click their ads. Come, LOOK AT MY HEADLINE!!!!

I already explained that the US was supporting the German Car industry allowing the EU to tax US car imports at 10%, nm the Chinese. Do you really think that was going to last forever? Maybe it should be 10% or maybe there should be no tariffs? Don't let this hurt your brain. They will figure it out.
 

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We need to separate out the difference between Tariffs on steel vs tariffs on cars. Tariffs are taxes, of course.

In 1975, so that the public would no longer wait in gas lines and the days of odd/even buying would be over (if you are old enough, you will know what that means), the US started to "incentivize", that is fine or tax imported cars based of gas mileage, known as CAFE standards. The fine is $55 per mpg over the standard. How many people, or Porsche owners, know this fine is being paid? And you are paying it. Don't think for a second its coming from corporate profits, no its coming from you who bought the car. You can find the numbers on line but the last published figure for 2004 was Porsche paid ~$200 fine per car/avg. for not meeting the standards. That's 14 years ago. Here is a list through 2012. Porsche paid maybe $3M in fines in 2011. The fines almost TRIPLED to $14 per mpg recently. I'm going to guess prices once again will go up to cover the fines and not take profits from VW AG stockholders. I'm only bringing up CAFE fines because I doubt many people even realize its being paid as its probably buried in the MSRP, just like the steel tariffs will be. I also assume it will be all countries, I guess we know next week.

A 25% tariff (i.e., tax) on imported cars is much more devastating on people. OTH, I doubt many people will notice steel tariffs just like they don't notice the CAFE fines, in that's basically, its small amounts that might get absorbed in yearly price hikes. Unless the Media goes crazy as they tend to do and blow it out of proportion. Do you see the Media going crazy with articles on the CAFE fines? I don't. They never talk about that unless some company is cheating. Not true on a 25% tariff. That, you will notice.

US car tariffs is 2.5% on cars. EU is 10%. China is around 25% (this last number came from Wilbur Ross this morning). How is that fair. Why should a German pay 10% more for Corvette than an American? Yet to buy that Porsche the tax only 2.5%? This is all about the trade deficit. After WWII the US had large trade surpluses. That ended in 1975. Trade deficits or surplus is part of GDP. So while tariffs might hurt you individually in that it pushes the price of the car higher, that is EXACTLY what the EU is doing to American cars, nm the Chinese. How is it fair that for US companies to sell a car in Europe, the car cost 10% than in the US while the European car cost 2.5% more? In what world does that make sense? I'll tell you what world ...

It made sense in the 50s when Europe was rebuilding after the war. It made perfect sense in 1975 when Europe was still coming out of wars and Germany was two nations. It no longer makes sense. The argument I see them making is why is the US paying Europe's way anymore? Why is the US protecting the German car industry? Of course after decades of US paying their way, they aren't going to like this one bit. If it happens, my guess is ALL Tariffs are dropped. Tariffs are protectionist policy. The EU is "protecting" the European Car industry. And the US can't protect its Car Industry? At one time GM was the largest company in the world. So it might have made sense for Europe to protect its car industry. Those days are long gone.

But, its all beyond me. They'll figure it out. It makes my head hurt.
We are watching sausage being made. I’m guessing it will turn out well.
 

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The U.S. president does not need the approval of the congress in order to raise/lower tariffs.

Raising the tariffs of steel and aluminum punishes mostly Canada, from which the U.S imports
more steel/aluminum than any other trading partner. The US imports little steel from China.


I do not know who thought that international trade was 'supposed' to be a zero-sum game. Maybe
on some ideal Earth in a parallel universe it is that way. It has never been that way on this version
of Earth.


Considering that the largest exporter of vehicles from the U.S. is BMW, how would a 25% tariff, if
at all, be applied to these cars - manufactured in the U.S. of A? I believe it was in the 1980s that we
saw German and Japanese carmakers build facilities in the US to either get around or appease
those who complained about imports ruining domestic carmakers business (who were already building
inferior/overpriced products and doing a fine job of destroying their own customer bases).


As grim points out, this seems to be a lot about of trying to gather audience share for the moment. If
it will sell newspapers or magazines or get people to visit web sites to read about the hype, then it's
a 'win'.

Maybe...


:|
 

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Unless the Media goes crazy as they tend to do and blow it out of proportion...
That is a bias attach on the media and of the rights of free speech...time out for you!

>:D
 

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The issue is not whether people will notice price hikes in the event of a steel tariff. They most likely won't. It will be a silent tax built into product price. The issue is whether those countries that are impacted by these tariffs will not retaliate. And they surely will. As such, the danger is that tariffs will lead to a negative spiral of retaliation on a whole host of sectors causing significant job losses.

In 2002 Bush implemented a small scale steel tariff excluding NAFTA. Net effect was a loss of 200,000 jobs in the US.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-107hhrg81372/html/CHRG-107hhrg81372.htm

http://www.tradepartnership.com/pdf_files/2002jobstudy.pdf
 
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