Porsche Macan Forum banner
101 - 120 of 122 Posts

· Registered
2023 Macan GTS
Joined
·
15,252 Posts
I have done that - paid out of pocket - to avoid drast5ic increases in policy fees.

My 80+ yr old mother used to 'bump' things all the time..... never claimed for any of it

It's the policy holder's choice to use or not use the policy
Nothing nefarious here - IMO
I’m not buying it in his case. Your story is not relevant. His insurance is not going to raise him $10,000. That is if he really is insured or just doesn’t have the card and didn’t pay the premium. That would be a bigger problem for him. Or maybe he’s just not gonna pay. Or maybe he’s got a pile of accidents or tickets but who cares. Again who cares? Those are his problems in his life that cost should’ve already been paid! This could go very right as well, so just in case it does I’m stating it again. All the above is to cover what happens if it goes wrong. It hasn’t been paid. That’s wrong already.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,720 Posts
Discussion Starter · #102 ·
Definitely odd to use that phrase in this setting. Not sure why there’s an implicit assumption that the so-called “armchair lawyers” are not, you know, actual lawyers. Or maybe there was no insult intended. Yes, some of us are lawyers - lawyers in our offices and in our armchairs wasting time debating a parking lot incident.
I apologize to any actual lawyers who commented. I meant no offense & I have been an 'armchair lawyer' despite not being a lawyer. Also have been an armchair doctor, mechanic, etc.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,720 Posts
Discussion Starter · #103 ·
I dont like this !! Why would this man pay up to 10K out of pocket rather than file a claim ? When someone wants to keep something hidden its dishonest . This can go very right or very wrong but there is ZERO chance of it going wrong by going through YOUR OWN insurance . If you are driving two Porsches I hope you have uninsured motorist and an umbrella . Thats a side note .
You will pay the 500 deductible and they will send an adjuster to the center to pay them on the spot . Its fast and easy . THEYwill go after his insurance . I would have done that right after the police report . The back and forth with daddy of the superstar kid is ridiculous. He already separated you one layer by using a "company accountant " . Trust NO ONE !! You have insurance and it is a binding contract. Use it !

Thats my advice .
As I said:
"I would be more confident of eventual full payment, if I was dealing with the father's insurance company."

My insurance is already involved. I already have a claim # from my insurance, since I called them & reported this right after I called the police.

1st night, using info on the incident report, I Googled the father's phone # & name & found the name of the company he owns & read up a bit on him. He seems to be very successful & wealthy. The car is insured through his company.
IDK much about commercial insurance, where many vehicles are insured for a company. I assume he & his accountants decided it is better for their bottom line to pay directly (even 10K) vs. making a claim.

I am waiting for the written estimate to be sent to me & them. Also the 1st payment amount, which s/b substantial.

I am guessing 7-8K. If/when they pay that, I will not be very concerned about them paying any supplements for hidden damage once the car is in for the actual repair & bumper removed, etc.

If they do not pay or dispute the amount, I will go through my insurance & have their Subrogation Dept. go after the at fault driver and their insurance.

It has crossed my mind that perhaps the daughter is not a listed driver on that car, on that policy. Maybe she has her own (insured) car at college, on the E coast. They do not live in AZ. He is here on business. She was visiting him.

I am relying on the father's honesty. Plan B is to use my insurance & pay my deductible.

The key event will be... do they or don't they make that 1st, large payment... direct to Penske Collision.

Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: yrralis1

· Registered
2023 Macan GTS
Joined
·
15,252 Posts
As I said:
"I would be more confident of eventual full payment, if I was dealing with the father's insurance company."

My insurance is already involved. I already have a claim # from my insurance, since I called them & reported this right after I called the police.

1st night, using info on the incident report, I Googled the father's phone # & name & found the name of the company he owns & read up a bit on him. He seems to be very successful & wealthy. The car is insured through his company.
IDK much about commercial insurance, where many vehicles are insured for a company. I assume he & his accountants decided it is better for their bottom line to pay directly (even 10K) vs. making a claim.

I am waiting for the written estimate to be sent to me & them. Also the 1st payment amount, which s/b substantial.

I am guessing 7-8K. If/when they pay that, I will not be very concerned about them paying any supplements for hidden damage once the car is in for the actual repair & bumper removed, etc.

If they do not pay or dispute the amount, I will go through my insurance & have their Subrogation Dept. go after the at fault driver and their insurance.

It has crossed my mind that perhaps the daughter is not a listed driver on that car, on that policy. Maybe she has her own (insured) car at college, on the E coast. They do not live in AZ. He is here on business. She was visiting him.

I am relying on the father's honesty. Plan B is to use my insurance & pay my deductible.

The key event will be... do they or don't they make that 1st, large payment... direct to Penske Collision.

Thanks!
That’s a real mess with this was created by allowing his daughter to drive a company vehicle when she doesn’t work there. She basically is uninsured but he is so that’s a pickle he got himself into. Do you remember my 2016 turbo that was rear ended? That was a hospital vehicle driven by a hospital employee. My insurance went after their insurance and was paid. My deductible was refunded within two months. The full payment was done in two days. That’s how long the dealership held my crash car before they sent it to auction. I was already driving a new car. The key is to resolve this thing quickly. I’m hoping for the best for you.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,720 Posts
Discussion Starter · #105 ·
That’s a real mess with this was created by allowing his daughter to drive a company vehicle when she doesn’t work there. She basically is uninsured but he is so that’s a pickle he got himself into. Do you remember my 2016 turbo that was rear ended? That was a hospital vehicle driven by a hospital employee. My insurance went after their insurance and was paid. My deductible was refunded within two months. The full payment was done in two days. That’s how long the dealership held my crash car before they sent it to auction. I was already driving a new car. The key is to resolve this thing quickly. I’m hoping for the best for you.
Yes, I remember. Good that you were compensated fully, fairly quickly.

My car will be repaired like new in February.
I don't think it will be delayed, even if I have to have my insurance pay.
 

· Registered
2023 Macan GTS
Joined
·
15,252 Posts
Yes, I remember. Good that you were compensated fully, fairly quickly.

My car will be repaired like new in February.
I don't think it will be delayed, even if I have to have my insurance pay.
I hope they can get all the parts . I was talking last week with the loaner director . In my 20's I started as a teacher and he was a student as a child . Now in his late 30's he never forgot and we talk . He told me that has an Audi there for months because they can't get one part . Porsche tends to be pretty good but I am having a hard time with my 16 year old 997 Turbo . Generally an older car is decent with OEM stuff (not always) but modifications are a totally different story . 16 years ago the part was everywhere but not now . Your car is 7 years old and OEM . Lets hope for the best .
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,657 Posts
That’s a real mess with this was created by allowing his daughter to drive a company vehicle when she doesn’t work there. She basically is uninsured but he is so that’s a pickle he got himself into. Do you remember my 2016 turbo that was rear ended? That was a hospital vehicle driven by a hospital employee. My insurance went after their insurance and was paid. My deductible was refunded within two months. The full payment was done in two days. That’s how long the dealership held my crash car before they sent it to auction. I was already driving a new car. The key is to resolve this thing quickly. I’m hoping for the best for you.
Insurance policies are written to cover the vehicles, not the operators. Primary and secondary operators of/for a vehicle are supposed to be
listed with the insurance company. An operator's driving record helps to assess the level of risk for insuring a vehicle and affects the premium
cost paid by the vehicle's owner.

It's up to the insurance company whether they cover a vehicle involved in an incident driven by an operator not previously listed on a policy.
As long as the operator was operating the vehicle with the owner's permission, it's typically covered.
 

· Registered
2023 Macan GTS
Joined
·
15,252 Posts
Insurance policies are written to cover the vehicles, not the operators. Primary and secondary operators of/for a vehicle are supposed to be
listed with the insurance company
. An operator's driving record helps to assess the level of risk for insuring a vehicle and affects the premium
cost paid by the vehicle's owner.

It's up to the insurance company whether they cover a vehicle involved in an incident driven by an operator not previously listed on a policy.
As long as the operator was operating the vehicle with the owner's permission, it's typically covered.
He did state above that he believed the daughter may not be "listed" on the company policy . Obviously the guy is ready too allow his company to eat 10K for a reason . Would you ? Doubt it . Either way he hasn't seen a cent yet . Like I said I"it can go very right or very wrong " . It hasn't been paid in full yet . Thats not good .
 

· Registered
2023 Macan GTS
Joined
·
15,252 Posts
Op - Most people who reside in the same residence are listed on the auto policies on the home as an abundance of caution. If a person. is driving my car and does not live in. my home he's covered . If a person lives in my home and is not listed it's questionable . Personal use of a non employee of a commercial vehicle is a different ball game and my guess is he consulted with an attorney . Anyone is successful and shells out 10K of corporate money doesn't just do that under the sky with no reason or advice . The question still remains will he follow through.. This is way too much drama than just going through my own insurance BTW if it were me . One thing he has done is placing an accountant in the mix . This could be good but I think of the bad when money is owed .It would. not surprise me one bit to hear " he's away on business and all I need is a signature when he returns next week" or a multitude of delay excuses . "out of the country, in the hospital, voted out by the board , bought out by a new company " who knows .
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,234 Posts
Isn’t it a possibility that his company self insures their vehicles? I believe that if a company has enough vehicles at some point it makes financial sense to self insure them.
In the US all or virtually all states require auto insurance. New Hampshire may be the one exception if you can provide proof of financial strength/ability. Very large entities often form a captive insurance company, an insurance company they form and own as a subsidiary. Most of the Fortune 500 do this and I believe some mid sized or even smaller entities may do so depending on the number and type of assets they own.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,657 Posts
ALL: See post #103 above. Read it carefully.

This situation is between the OP and his insurance company and either the father of the operator of the Mercedes or the father's
insurance carrier.

All else is guessing by discussion participants and does absolutely nothing in getting the OP's Macan repaired and/or restored.

As one forum member succinctly noted above:

This is way too much drama...​


Let's top guessing. If you don't live in AZ and you are not a lawyer and/or possess expertise in insurance law/regulations, please, please resist
your impulses to post.


Time to move on.

Nothing to see here.


(Look! There's Elvis!!!)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,720 Posts
Discussion Starter · #114 ·
Still waiting for the Penske estimate (They are very busy with cars already there)
I sent another email to my "Repair Planner" contact @ Penske late PM today.

He knows I want the written, preliminary estimate & confirmation that it is also sent to the accountant @ the At Fault Driver's father's company. Along with a request for payment.
Hopefully, this will happen very soon.

As soon as I am notified that this has happened, I will ask the exact amount of the 1st payment amount requested, as well as the form of payment expected; paper check via snail mail, wire, EFT, etc.

Unless there is damage under the bumper (I doubt that, based on side swipe on rear wheel arch damage)...The only part that s/b required, is a new, rear door handle. They do not want to repair the handle scratch & repaint, since the thickness of the extra paint layers may interfere with the door lock sensors.

I know some Macan owners have cracked door handles that are replaced under warranty. Maybe that means there is a supply of Macon door handles in the US and it's not necessary to order them from Germany?

I had asked if Penske could order the door handle now, since my insurance will cover the cost if the at fault party ends up not paying. I didn't really receive an answer to that so, I suspect they will not/have not done this.

As I previously stated, I would be much more comfortable with this situation, if they were going through their insurance.

I was guessing possible reasons why they chose to self pay. I think guessing the rationale of other people helps one to plan contingencies. If they do this, I'll do that, etc.

I appreciate the interest shown by those who posted.

This thread could be useful to others in the future, if their car is damaged.
The photos of the damage, along with the eventual full repair cost will be helpful.
The discussion regarding whether to call police or not might be useful to others.

If your car was damaged in a parking lot, when you were not present and a note was left with contact information, deciding whether to have the police out and have the police call the phone number vs. you calling the phone number... is another issue that discussion here may help you decide.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,720 Posts
Discussion Starter · #115 ·
Finally, received the written preliminary estimate late today.
$8,310.89
Penske does not bill or accept payments from 3rd parties. (I found this out today!) So the at fault party must send me a check (hopefully, a cashier's or certified check) I then pay that to Penske.
After I bring my Macan in for my appt., in a couple weeks, they start work & maybe find hidden damage. I hope not.
When/if I receive a check, I will see if Penske will allow me to endorse it over to them.

The at fault party received the estimate & request to send me a cashier's check same time I received it, late Tuesday PM.
Now we shall see if they pay this 1st, large amount. When/If they do, I will relax, knowing they will pay any supplements, which I assume will be small.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
Finally, received the written preliminary estimate late today.
$8,310.89
Penske does not bill or accept payments from 3rd parties. (I found this out today!) So the at fault party must send me a check (hopefully, a cashier's or certified check) I then pay that to Penske.
After I bring my Macan in for my appt., in a couple weeks, they start work & maybe find hidden damage. I hope not.
When/if I receive a check, I will see if Penske will allow me to endorse it over to them.

The at fault party received the estimate & request to send me a cashier's check same time I received it, late Tuesday PM.
Now we shall see if they pay this 1st, large amount. When/If they do, I will relax, knowing they will pay any supplements, which I assume will be small.
🙏🏻
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,657 Posts
Why are you (OP) not going through your insurance and letting them deal with all of the headaches, etc. associated with
payments, repairs, worry, etc. for this issue?

It is one of the reasons people carry automobile insurance. Let your insurance company go after the at fault party - or their insurance carrier.

Why burden yourself with all of this unnecessary overhead?

Typically, a person's auto policy takes care of paying for the collision repairs. If another party is legally "at fault" then the insurance company seeks
recovery damages from the other party and/or its insurance carrier. With this model, it may end up with lawyers from one insurance company negotiating
with lawyers from another insurance company.

If you run into issues receiving payment to cover your losses, how will that be handled? You'll likely have to obtain the services of a lawyer at your
expense, then try to recoup those costs in court. Who wins? The lawyers. Who loses?


:unsure:
 

· Registered
2020 Macan GTS
Joined
·
99 Posts
Why are you (OP) not going through your insurance and letting them deal with all of the headaches, etc. associated with
payments, repairs, worry, etc. for this issue?

It is one of the reasons people carry automobile insurance. Let your insurance company go after the at fault party - or their insurance carrier.

Why burden yourself with all of this unnecessary overhead?

Typically, a person's auto policy takes care of paying for the collision repairs. If another party is legally "at fault" then the insurance company seeks
recovery damages from the other party and/or its insurance carrier. With this model, it may end up with lawyers from one insurance company negotiating
with lawyers from another insurance company.

If you run into issues receiving payment to cover your losses, how will that be handled? You'll likely have to obtain the services of a lawyer at your
expense, then try to recoup those costs in court. Who wins? The lawyers. Who loses?


:unsure:
I was wondering this too. I’ve been in 3 accidents over the years (rear ended twice, tboned once) and none were my fault. My insurance handled everything for me and I only dealt with them. I’m paying the premiums for insurance, may as well use it as that’s what it’s for.
 
101 - 120 of 122 Posts
Top