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@wwahl I think you didn’t understand what I said.
2015 Macan S:
Me and my wife only: $1,600/year
Adding my 16yo son to the policy: $3,400/year

2015 Mercedes GL450
Me and my wife only: $1,500year
Adding my 16yo son to the policy: $3,200/year

2023 Honda CRV
Me, my wife and 16yo son: $1,200/year

I think the insurance companies see a huge liability having a 16yo driving cars that are expensive to fix if something happens while he is delicious. Thus, it makes sense to take my son out of the Macan and Mercedes insurance and keep him only on his Honda.
As soon as my kid's turned 18, I put the title to the car in their name and took my wife's name off. Helped me sleep better to know I took steps to avoid being named as a defendant in a law suit involving a traffic accident.
 

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So are you paying $1,600 + $1,500 + $1,200 now with him added on your plan for all 3 vehicles?

Edit -
Or is it $3,400 + $3,200 + $1,200 for all three?
@windblow Ok, let me clarify. I always paid around $1,600 + $1,500 for me and my wife to drive the Macan and the Mercedes. When my son turned 16, we added him to the existing polices of the Macan and Mercedes. By adding him, the premiums changed to $3,[email protected] + $3,200.

We then bought him a brand new 2023 Honda CRV and to have all 3 of us on the Honda policy it cost me $1,200/year. I told the insurance company that the Macan and the Mercedes are worth less than the new Honda but they said the cost to repair a Porsche and a Mercedes is way higher than repairing a Honda.

My plan is to take my son out of the insurance on the Macan and the Mercedes and only let him drive the Honda.
 

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My concept was to cut him off the two fancy pants cars all together, meaning he can't use those. Then buy him a cheaper utility young person's car and hold his use to that. My question is would that be a cheaper way to go? Maybe I missed something here, but that is my question.
Cutting him off the two fancy cars: YES

I bought him a brand new Honda CRV. Yes, I tried to buy a used one and was asked to pay $6k more for a 2020 car with 25k miles than the new one so I ignored the dealer and ordered a new one. I had to wait 4 months but paid less for a new car. Buying something very old and without all the safety features I wanted was out of consideration.
 

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The problem having another driver living in the household is, in Florida at least, that he/she/they must be disclosed on the auto insurance application along with the other residents. The insurance company gives a premium as if everyone can drive all the household cars. Many folks here lose their coverage because they don’t disclose all the cars and drivers in the household.
I don’t think just putting a son or daughter’s name on the vehicle will save premium dollars. It will prevent liability from reaching non-owner/operators of the car in the accident - in Florida.
 

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@windblow Ok, let me clarify. I always paid around $1,600 + $1,500 for me and my wife to drive the Macan and the Mercedes. When my son turned 16, we added him to the existing polices of the Macan and Mercedes. By adding him, the premiums changed to $3,[email protected] + $3,200.

We then bought him a brand new 2023 Honda CRV and to have all 3 of us on the Honda policy it cost me $1,200/year. I told the insurance company that the Macan and the Mercedes are worth less than the new Honda but they said the cost to repair a Porsche and a Mercedes is way higher than repairing a Honda.

My plan is to take my son out of the insurance on the Macan and the Mercedes and only let him drive the Honda.
It’s still going to be expensive. A 16-year-old male is a high risk in the eyes of an insurance company. There’s no way I would put a car in his name which was mentioned earlier. Basically handing the kid $15,000 in cash if he feels like partying . Not a chance! It was very wise of you to put your son car on your name. I don’t care how responsible they are. They are minors and can sometimes be very reckless as seen by the original poster example. In her case, she’s not even a minor. She’s a young adult! If he pays for his own car, then sure he can put it in any name he wants. I do know many young people who paid for their own car. It was very generous of you to buy him a new car. I’m sure he will cherish that memory and one day take ownership of it when you are ready.
 

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At fault driver did NOT leave insurance information. Did NOT leave personal contact information. Left phone # of her father. Also a misstatement of what damage she did ("a scratch.")

I am relieved she left actual contact information that hopefully will result in her father paying for the total damage.

IMO, the correct course of action after hitting an unoccupied parked car is to CALL THE POLICE!
Give the Officer all the information & Officer will create an incident or accident report.
Then the at fault party can leave. No need to wait for victim to return.
The officer can leave report # in a note along with police phone # for getting copy of the report. Officer can also contact the registered owner if they have yet to return.

The police report will contain name, drivers license number, address, VIN number, insurance company, policy number, description of damage, accident... everything.

As mentioned, the at fault driver can wait, in their locked car, for the officer to arrive, so they will not be in any danger.

When you damage another persons vehicle or property, there is nothing wrong with you being inconvenienced. Your inconvenience is nothing compared to the inconvenience of the person whose property/car has been damaged by you.

While I hope my car is fully restored, the amount of my time this incident has consumed... is considerable.
The extent of the damage is much more than I would expect for a minor scrape in a parking lot with normal size parking spaces. I suspect this was a distracted driver. Perhaps texting or even alcohol or substance-abuse. As mentioned before, she at least made a good attempt to do the right thing and I am relieved.

I do not know what would have happened had I not called the police afterwards. If I had just waited till I got home and called the father, would I have been able to obtain insurance information VIN number, drivers license number and all that other inf. the officer obtained for his report?

I have no way of knowing for certain but, I really doubt it. I suspect I would just be told: "Here's my name, here's my phone number, send me the estimate and I'll send you a check." Then when they see that the estimate is 7 to $10,000 and their daughter has said that it was 'a scratch' they very well could have accused me of inflating the damage and not paid a penny.

By me calling the police and having them call the father and fill out the incident report was my best chance of being fairly compensated.
I’m sorry your car was damaged.

It’s been explained many times that the law did not require her to wait for you to return or to call the police.

In addition to taking them from other, more serious matters, having cops arrive for something this mundane can have devastating results for different types of people.

Even though this is a car forum the level of pure emotion regarding this topic is stunning.

A nice car was damaged in a parking lot by a young driver. We’re all very sorry this happened to you. But perhaps it’s time to put it in perspective - No one is dead. No one was injured.
 

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I’m sorry your car was damaged.

It’s been explained many times that the law did not require her to wait for you to return or to call the police.

In addition to taking them from other, more serious matters, having cops arrive for something this mundane can have devastating results for different types of people.

Even though this is a car forum the level of pure emotion regarding this topic is stunning.

A nice car was damaged in a parking lot by a young driver. We’re all very sorry this happened to you. But perhaps it’s time to put it in perspective - No one is dead. No one was injured.
To put this in perspective.
A young driver accidently damaged a parked vehicle. She did the honest thing by admitting fault and left a contact name and number.
The owner of the damaged vehicle, in protecting himself, called the police and requested an incident report. Both parties I believe acted in good faith and did the right thing.
Hopefully the vehicle is repaired to its former condition.
 

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It’s still going to be expensive. A 16-year-old male is a high risk in the eyes of an insurance company. There’s no way I would put a car in his name which was mentioned earlier. Basically handing the kid $15,000 in cash if he feels like partying . Not a chance! It was very wise of you to put your son car on your name. I don’t care how responsible they are. They are minors and can sometimes be very reckless as seen by the original poster example. In her case, she’s not even a minor. She’s a young adult! If he pays for his own car, then sure he can put it in any name he wants. I do know many young people who paid for their own car. It was very generous of you to buy him a new car. I’m sure he will cherish that memory and one day take ownership of it when you are ready.
His car is titled on my name. He is added to my insurance. I will probably call and see if moving him out of the Porsche and Mercedes will change anything. Funny that there is a “discount” for him being a straight A student. 🤓 Kid is extremely responsible but as you said, he is 16. 😫
 
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Is everyone now done criticizing the young lady? Is everyone here so old to not remember being a teenager? What would you have done? Were you all mature and figured out life, knowing what to do? Figured it out? But that was 20 years ago, 30 years, 40 years, dare I say 50 years ago?

That was a different time, much different time. Now think you are a young female, alone, in fathers car. She’s probably scared Dad is going is going to be furious for denting his car. Hard as it might be, try not to judge based on your life experience but hers, at her age, in the current zeitgeist. Social media bombards her all the time. Its lucky she left the note, didnt follow the exact letter of the statute but the intent was there.

Walk in her shoes, at her age, in the current social climate she lives in, not yours, and maybe understand …. she did well FWIW.
 

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To put this in perspective.
A young driver accidently damaged a parked vehicle. She did the honest thing by admitting fault and left a contact name and number.
The owner of the damaged vehicle, in protecting himself, called the police and requested an incident report. Both parties I believe acted in good faith and did the right thing.
Hopefully the vehicle is repaired to its former condition.
I don’t have a problem that he called the police if that’s what makes him comfortable. I object to the idea that this young person should have done that when it’s not what the law requires. I’m surprised by all the emotion about what, from my POV, is a mundane incident. Over and over, many of those reacting with clutched pearls remind us that an extra 10k on a car is nothing to get a little more performance. I’m not sure why parking lot damage is causing such emotion. But maybe I’m just not as emotional about material objects.
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
Even though The officer obtained the insurance info from the father, he has decided to pay directly w/o using his insurance. The father is communicating with me & with the Penske collision center via an employee (Accountant) at his company.

I would be more confident of eventual full payment, if I was dealing with the father's insurance company.

I checked with Penske collision & since no insurance is involved, no report sent to CarFax. So, assuming the bill gets paid, I will make no diminished value claim.

Earliest appt. I could get to bring in my car, to begin work, was February.

Penske requires a substantial payment, b4 they begin work.

I am still awaiting the written, preliminary estimate, based on my visit to Penske the day after the accident. This will also be sent to the father's accountant. Along with request for payment.

I was supposed to receive this today but, as of 6PM MST, I have not received it.

To the armchair lawyers commenting on specifics of AZ law.
Of course, the young woman complied with the spirit of the law.
Maybe the officer was mistaken in his insistence that AZ law requires the at fault driver to call police.
Of course, no prosecuter would prosecute the woman for not calling the police.

I am relieved (not grateful, not at all grateful) that my car was not damaged more, which might cause me to fix, sell & buy something else.

My life experience, along with several similar experiences, from friends & stories from friends of friends, is NOT positive re at fault drivers who promise to pay.

Off topic?
If I had extensive damage, what would I have seriously considered buying?
Possibly, a 2023 Macan GTS, even though I would have difficulty getting an allocation & even more trouble getting a discount & I dislike the rear taillight & the touch screens instead of buttons.
Also, I am unhappy with the Macan steering coulmn failure in < 40K miles. "And PCNA refusing Good Will."
So, I would seriously consider other brands.

Glad I do not have to deal with that decision now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
I don’t have a problem that he called the police if that’s what makes him comfortable. I object to the idea that this young person should have done that when it’s not what the law requires. I’m surprised by all the emotion about what, from my POV, is a mundane incident. Over and over, many of those reacting with clutched pearls remind us that an extra 10k on a car is nothing to get a little more performance. I’m not sure why parking lot damage is causing such emotion. But maybe I’m just not as emotional about material objects.
It is NOT bc calling the police made me comfortable!

I was rear ended by a young woman last year, in my Macan. Low speed. She profusely apologized, begged me over and over again to not call the police. We exchanged information. She did not have a drivers license, rather an ID. She did not have insurance. She had a California license plate and we are in Arizona. She gave me her name, her employers name and phone number, which I had not requested. She repeated over and over again that she's an honest person and please don't call the police because they will impound her car. I explained that Porsches are very expensive to fix and she said she will pay. In the dark, looking at my bumper, it looked like just a small amount of damage, LOLOL! (Ended up costing >$5k) I called my insurance to report the accident.

I tried calling the # she gave me the next day & got a VM with the robo voice. No call back. I decided to call Police non emergency # to file a report 2 days later. Got police VM. Police NEVER called me back!

I eventually called her work & spoke to her & she had transposed 2 digits in the phone # she gave me. She acted happy to hear from me (?!)
She said she has insurance & a Mexican driver's license. I got this info & turned it over to my insurance claims rep.
They repeatedly left her messages & sent letters & she never replied to them. At this point she had no idea what the repair cost was.
Turns out she obtained insurace AFTER the accident so, her new insurance certainly would not pay.

I called her again at work (I recorded the call) & she promised to pay, admitted responsibility & promised to call my claims rep the next day. She did not.
Weeks later, I had my claims rep on hold, ready to record the phone call & did a 3 way conference call, surprising her at work with the fact that I had my Insurance claims rep on the line. He was able to record her accepting responsibility & completed the typical insurance post accident interview.

To date she has continued to fail to respond to phone calls & letters from my insurance Subrogation Dept. & has not paid anything.

"I will pay! I'm an honest person!"

Reminds me of this famous quote:

“The more he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”–Ralph Waldo Emerson
 

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Discussion Starter · #95 ·
Why you should call the police after even a minor accident that is not your fault.

Whether you find your car damaged in a parking lot or someone hits you & promises to pay.

What is your PROOF that the damage to your car happend the way you say it did?

If your bumper or side of your car has damage, what prevents your insurance claims adjuster from saying that you may have struck something, rather than accepting what actually happened?

Calling the police, making a report, increases the chance that your story will be accepted by your insurance.

Not a guarantee or maybe the police will not respond, especially on private property or if your amateur damage amount estimate is too low. But calling the police increases your odds.
 

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Why you should call the police after even a minor accident that is not your fault.

Whether you find your car damaged in a parking lot or someone hits you & promises to pay.

What is your PROOF that the damage to your car happend the way you say it did?

If your bumper or side of your car has damage, what prevents your insurance claims adjuster from saying that you may have struck something, rather than accepting what actually happened?

Calling the police, making a report, increases the chance that your story will be accepted by your insurance.

Not a guarantee or maybe the police will not respond, especially on private property or if your amateur damage amount estimate is too low. But calling the police increases your odds.
Ok. I hope it’s repaired to your satisfaction soon.
 

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Even though The officer obtained the insurance info from the father, he has decided to pay directly w/o using his insurance. The father is communicating with me & with the Penske collision center via an employee (Accountant) at his company.

I would be more confident of eventual full payment, if I was dealing with the father's insurance company.

I checked with Penske collision & since no insurance is involved, no report sent to CarFax. So, assuming the bill gets paid, I will make no diminished value claim.

Earliest appt. I could get to bring in my car, to begin work, was February.

Penske requires a substantial payment, b4 they begin work.

I am still awaiting the written, preliminary estimate, based on my visit to Penske the day after the accident. This will also be sent to the father's accountant. Along with request for payment.

I was supposed to receive this today but, as of 6PM MST, I have not received it.

To the armchair lawyers commenting on specifics of AZ law.
Of course, the young woman complied with the spirit of the law.
Maybe the officer was mistaken in his insistence that AZ law requires the at fault driver to call police.
Of course, no prosecuter would prosecute the woman for not calling the police.

I am relieved (not grateful, not at all grateful) that my car was not damaged more, which might cause me to fix, sell & buy something else.

My life experience, along with several similar experiences, from friends & stories from friends of friends, is NOT positive re at fault drivers who promise to pay.

Off topic?
If I had extensive damage, what would I have seriously considered buying?
Possibly, a 2023 Macan GTS, even though I would have difficulty getting an allocation & even more trouble getting a discount & I dislike the rear taillight & the touch screens instead of buttons.
Also, I am unhappy with the Macan steering coulmn failure in < 40K miles. "And PCNA refusing Good Will."
So, I would seriously consider other brands.

Glad I do not have to deal with that decision now.
It’s interesting that the correct AZ statutory provision came from the “armchair lawyer” segment, using your terminology. At any rate, I hope your repairs and losses are successfully completed and recovered.
 

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It’s interesting that the correct AZ statutory provision came from the “armchair lawyer” segment, using your terminology. At any rate, I hope your repairs and losses are successfully completed and recovered.
Definitely odd to use that phrase in this setting. Not sure why there’s an implicit assumption that the so-called “armchair lawyers” are not, you know, actual lawyers. Or maybe there was no insult intended. Yes, some of us are lawyers - lawyers in our offices and in our armchairs wasting time debating a parking lot incident.
 

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Even though The officer obtained the insurance info from the father, he has decided to pay directly w/o using his insurance. The father is communicating with me & with the Penske collision center via an employee (Accountant) at his company.

I would be more confident of eventual full payment, if I was dealing with the father's insurance company.

I checked with Penske collision & since no insurance is involved, no report sent to CarFax. So, assuming the bill gets paid, I will make no diminished value claim.

Earliest appt. I could get to bring in my car, to begin work, was February.

Penske requires a substantial payment, b4 they begin work.

I am still awaiting the written, preliminary estimate, based on my visit to Penske the day after the accident. This will also be sent to the father's accountant. Along with request for payment.

I was supposed to receive this today but, as of 6PM MST, I have not received it.

To the armchair lawyers commenting on specifics of AZ law.
Of course, the young woman complied with the spirit of the law.
Maybe the officer was mistaken in his insistence that AZ law requires the at fault driver to call police.
Of course, no prosecuter would prosecute the woman for not calling the police.

I am relieved (not grateful, not at all grateful) that my car was not damaged more, which might cause me to fix, sell & buy something else.

My life experience, along with several similar experiences, from friends & stories from friends of friends, is NOT positive re at fault drivers who promise to pay.

Off topic?
If I had extensive damage, what would I have seriously considered buying?
Possibly, a 2023 Macan GTS, even though I would have difficulty getting an allocation & even more trouble getting a discount & I dislike the rear taillight & the touch screens instead of buttons.
Also, I am unhappy with the Macan steering coulmn failure in < 40K miles. "And PCNA refusing Good Will."
So, I would seriously consider other brands.

Glad I do not have to deal with that decision now.
I dont like this !! Why would this man pay up to 10K out of pocket rather than file a claim ? When someone wants to keep something hidden its dishonest . This can go very right or very wrong but there is ZERO chance of it going wrong by going through YOUR OWN insurance . If you are driving two Porsches I hope you have uninsured motorist and an umbrella . Thats a side note .
You will pay the 500 deductible and they will send an adjuster to the center to pay them on the spot . Its fast and easy . THEYwill go after his insurance . I would have done that right after the police report . The back and forth with daddy of the superstar kid is ridiculous. He already separated you one layer by using a "company accountant " . Trust NO ONE !! You have insurance and it is a binding contract. Use it !

Thats my advice .
 

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I have done that - paid out of pocket - to avoid drast5ic increases in policy fees.

My 80+ yr old mother used to 'bump' things all the time..... never claimed for any of it

It's the policy holder's choice to use or not use the policy
Nothing nefarious here - IMO
 
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