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Santrix, from that diagram....if our wiring is as per diagram.....the D Pillar is in parallel.....you may've one out of phase now ?
I can see what you are saying. The surround speakers are the only ones that seem to be intentionally wired differently, per the diagram. So, it seems they would be intentionally out of phase.


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yeah....i plan to measure up all drivers as well. go from there.
what MY Macan you have, Bose, correct ?
Per the diagram, the surround speakers are intentionally wired with reversed polarity (electrically). With my change, now the electrical polarity (and speaker polarity per speaker pop) of both speakers is the same.

I didn’t look at this diagram before I made the changes, but I’ll experiment over the weekend by changing this back and forth for surround speakers.

You can also see that the polarity of the rear left door speaker and tweeter per this diagram should match the polarity of the rest of the speakers. What I found with speaker pop is that both rear left door woofer and tweeter were reversed. It makes sense by looking at the diagram that these both speakers are affected as they are wired in parallel. Unknown how these speakers produce this reversed polarity, perhaps a factory defect with the wiring.

Thanks for pointing this out, it made me look at the diagram with more rigor.


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Discussion Starter #344 (Edited)
Agree, I get why the C pillar ( Surrounds ) are intentionally out of phase....for surround crap......but the whole rear passenger door ???

Also, you don’t think the active Microphone has influence on this do you ? Is this only used for levelling volume ( when applied ) ?
Ie. Speed sensitive




2016 Macan T
 

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Agree, I get why the C pillar ( Surrounds ) are intentionally out of phase....for surround crap......but the whole rear passenger door ???

Also, you don’t think the active Microphone has influence on this do you ? Is this only used for levelling volume ( when applied ) ?
Ie. Speed sensitive




2016 Macan T
I took my measurements with audio pilot on and off. Measurements on polarity are exactly the same.


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The reason the rear speakers are out of phase it to add ambiance to the front. Wiring them out of phase is a cheap way to cancel vocals behind you (so it does not pull your frontal image backwards) and to leave differential information. This helps add ambiance and give spaciousness to the front.

Also, the Bose DSP is capable of changing polarity of the signal going to each speaker. This is helpful in true Dolby Digital surround mode where you want all speakers acoustically in phase. But, in 2 channel mode the rears remain out of phase.

I also mentioned before that electrical phase is not the same as acoustic phase in all circumstances. I'm certain this is not a problem Porsche overlooked when wiring all of our vehicles. It is a design feature.

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Today I removed the D-Pillar trim and played with the electrical polarity of the left rear surround speaker. This speaker is wired intentionally with a reversed polarity per diagram.

Tested the system with surround on and off. In the end , I decided to leave it with positive polarity as measured by speaker pop and reversed electrically from normal connection. Sound is cleaner both with surround off and on. This is my purely subjective opinion.


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Today I removed the D-Pillar trim and played with the electrical polarity of the left rear surround speaker. This speaker is wired intentionally with a reversed polarity per diagram.

Tested the system with surround on and off. In the end , I decided to leave it with positive polarity as measured by speaker pop and reversed electrically from normal connection. Sound is cleaner both with surround off and on. This is my purely subjective opinion.


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Ok. How did you remove the D pillars? Photos? Explaination?

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I posted it in the other thread you started "The Long and Involved Process of Upgrading my 2016 Macan S Stereo System". Hopefully to your standards.... :)


Ok. How did you remove the D pillars? Photos? Explaination?

Ge0
 

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Have anyone confirmed FRONT and REAR Doors Bass Woofer Impedance Value?

I measured the DC Resistance on both and they are around 2-ohm, but wanted to confirm.

FRONT DOOR:

231372



REAR DOOR:

231373


FRONT DOORS (Woofer) Can anyone confirm the IMP on both of the stock BOSE and BURM drivers ? Are they physically a straight drop in ?

REAR DOORS (Woofer) the Burm Rear woofers look and cost is different to the front woofers. Does anyone know the IPM of the BOSE driver and the BURM driver for the rear ?
 

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Have anyone confirmed FRONT and REAR Doors Bass Woofer Impedance Value?

I measured the DC Resistance on both and they are around 2-ohm, but wanted to confirm.

FRONT DOOR:

View attachment 231372


REAR DOOR:

View attachment 231373
The unfortunate thing is that our conventional digital multi-meters can't measure resistance this low accurately. You need a special 4 wire equipped meter to make this measurement. Your reading is at best +/- 1ohm accurate. Long story short, the average impedance of this driver will be between 2 and 3 ohm.

Just look at 2 ohm drivers and you should be safe.

I have a whole list of drivers that will work for the front doors if interested. I haven't put any thought into replacing the rears yet because they play a lesser role in my system design. I'm assuming the rears have a similar height stack limitation than the fronts. Look for a driver that is less than 3" deep and you should be OK.

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Have anyone confirmed FRONT and REAR Doors Bass Woofer Impedance Value?

I measured the DC Resistance on both and they are around 2-ohm, but wanted to confirm.

FRONT DOOR:

View attachment 231372


REAR DOOR:

View attachment 231373
BTW: Looking at that mounting flange I see a lot of dead space. I bet you could fit an 8" driver in that spot if needed. Do you have any pictures / dimensions of the door / speaker opening?

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BTW: Looking at that mounting flange I see a lot of dead space. I bet you could fit an 8" driver in that spot if needed. Do you have any pictures / dimensions of the door / speaker opening?

Ge0
Yes, you could easily fit an 8”. But I’m looking for that midbass range, and I think the 6-1/2” would provide a better sound definition in the rear, rather than adding an 8” which will add more bass.

Also, I have been thinking about installing a 6-1/2” in the front, but I’m concerned on how will that affect the sound dynamics. If I do the change I think I would do 8” front and 6-1/2” rear.




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The old myth of 8" being strictly a woofer and 6-1/2" being a better midbass in a misconception. An 8" driver can be an excellent midbass if used that way. It's larger cone diameter means it doesn't have to work as hard to play notes at any given volume. Remember, SPL is a product of cone area plus cone excursion. The 8" drver does not need to move back and forth as much to produce the same SPL. If you ran an 8" driver from 80Hz to 300Hz it would make an excellent midbass. Heck, you could even run it up to 2Khz if you wanted. The 6-1/2" driver could play the same range. It just needs to move back and forth (excursion) further to produce the same SPL.

The difference between the 8" and 6-1/2" is when you play music through them above 2KHz. The high frequencies will attenuate sooner off axis with the 8" vs. the 6-1/2". That's why 6-1/2" drivers are more popular with 2 way systems. The 6-1/2" needs to play from 80Hz sometimes up to 3KHz. This is where the 6-1/2" is better suited. Heck, I may even use a 5-1/4" driver in this instance if you aleready have enough bass.

In a 3 way system I would definitely stick with an 8" or even 10" midbass. Especially in our Macans where the front midbasses play well into the subwoofer range. Here is a plot I just made of the front door:
231385


As you can see, the front doors contribute a large portion to the systems overall bass output. You need the larger drivers in the front doors. But then again, the front doors are a 3 way system. The midbasses only play from 40Hz up to approximately 300Hz where the door midrange takes over.

The #1 driver I want to try out in my front doors is the Dynaudio MW182. This is a highly efficient 10" driver. However, they are REAL expensive. I'm shopping around for a slightly used set. This would be easier on the pocket book.

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Got it.

So...
FRONT: 8" or 10"
REAR: 6-1/2" to 8"

I'll probably go with 8" / 6-1/2" or 8" / 8".

I noticed that the 10" speaker you are looking at is 4-ohm. So, 4-ohm OK for doors?

Again, as always, great information here. Thank you. Learning a ton.

-santirx

The old myth of 8" being strictly a woofer and 6-1/2" being a better midbass in a misconception. An 8" driver can be an excellent midbass if used that way. It's larger cone diameter means it doesn't have to work as hard to play notes at any given volume. Remember, SPL is a product of cone area plus cone excursion. The 8" drver does not need to move back and forth as much to produce the same SPL. If you ran an 8" driver from 80Hz to 300Hz it would make an excellent midbass. Heck, you could even run it up to 2Khz if you wanted. The 6-1/2" driver could play the same range. It just needs to move back and forth (excursion) further to produce the same SPL.

The difference between the 8" and 6-1/2" is when you play music through them above 2KHz. The high frequencies will attenuate sooner off axis with the 8" vs. the 6-1/2". That's why 6-1/2" drivers are more popular with 2 way systems. The 6-1/2" needs to play from 80Hz sometimes up to 3KHz. This is where the 6-1/2" is better suited. Heck, I may even use a 5-1/4" driver in this instance if you aleready have enough bass.

In a 3 way system I would definitely stick with an 8" or even 10" midbass. Especially in our Macans where the front midbasses play well into the subwoofer range. Here is a plot I just made of the front door:
View attachment 231385

As you can see, the front doors contribute a large portion to the systems overall bass output. You need the larger drivers in the front doors. But then again, the front doors are a 3 way system. The midbasses only play from 40Hz up to approximately 300Hz where the door midrange takes over.

The #1 driver I want to try out in my front doors is the Dynaudio MW182. This is a highly efficient 10" driver. However, they are REAL expensive. I'm shopping around for a slightly used set. This would be easier on the pocket book.

Ge0
 

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Got it.

So...
FRONT: 8" or 10"
REAR: 6-1/2" to 8"

I'll probably go with 8" / 6-1/2" or 8" / 8".

I noticed that the 10" speaker you are looking at is 4-ohm. So, 4-ohm OK for doors?

Again, as always, great information here. Thank you. Learning a ton.

-santirx
I am eventually going to add an aftermarket amp. So, 4 ohm is fine. I may put a 2nd set in rear doors and wire them in parallel for a 2 ohm load. The trick is finding a highly sensitive (above 90dB 1W/1M) 4 ohm driver. This will blend well enough with the Bose factory amp until I get the aftermarket unit in. I am going to take a similar approach to Phroenips except I'll be using a different brand of equipment.

I think a highly sensitive 6-/12" driver will work well for you in the back doors. Go to Facebook and search for STEVENS AUDIO MB-6. These things are awesome midbass / midranges for a very reasonable price. The guy selling them used to be a lead engineer at Image Dynamics. He also has a pretty good 2 way component set you might be interested in.

Just remember, if you swap midbass drivers front or rear you are going to need spacer rings to bump the speaker out of the inner door and clear the window.

Ge0
 

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I originally bought Focal 165AS3 3-way components for the front but then realized 8s would fit nicely up there. So I swapped out my Focal 6.5 fronts out for the Rockford 8s and put the 6.5s in the rear. I think it sounds pretty good. Mind you, I'm running the generic 235 watt amp and not the Bose.

As Ge0 mentions I had to build a bracket for the fronts. But I ripped out the rear speaker out of its bracket and the Focal 6.5 fit right in.
 

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I originally bought Focal 165AS3 3-way components for the front but then realized 8s would fit nicely up there. So I swapped out my Focal 6.5 fronts out for the Rockford 8s and put the 6.5s in the rear. I think it sounds pretty good. Mind you, I'm running the generic 235 watt amp and not the Bose.

As Ge0 mentions I had to build a bracket for the fronts. But I ripped out the rear speaker out of its bracket and the Focal 6.5 fit right in.
Nice. But you know you can't mention stuff like that around here without showing pictures :)

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FRONT DOORS MIDRANGE SWAP:

After a lot of research and review, I decided to go with the Audison Prima AP4 for front door midrange. They have very extended frequency response in both high and low frequencies with high efficiency. About $125 in Amazon (~$63 per speaker)...




Really nice and beautiful speakers. I hope they sound as they look. The speaker have nice notches for the screws that will fit very nicely into the adapter.


I modified a 4” extender ring:


This is the modified ring. The notch in yellow goes into the slot. The notches in red are screws to the door panel (the screw on the red on the bottom also goes through the speaker screw hole). The notches in green hold the other two sides of the speaker. This adapter basically converts the three screw configuration into four.



See it as I tested it on the door panel.




This photo shows the speaker already mounted to the spacer adapter with the two screws in the green notches. I mounted the speaker over the adapter, and added a 3/8” x 3/16” rubber foam around it for nicer fit.




Comparison between the Bose and Audison speakers. You can see now the three screw configuration in the adapter.




Speaker mounted. You can see screws now in the red notches:




Took out connector from Bose speakers to build my cable adapter. The good thing is that you don't have to destroy your bose speaker to take the connector out. It slides out once you detach the cables from the metal connectors. You can easily put it back together on the bose if you want or need later on.



Solid mounting.



And yes, sound is spectacular... more “subjective” test on this tomorrow. My only instrument to test are some apps and my ears...


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