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Discussion Starter #1
So Subaru is regarded as having excellent snow traction with its AWD.

Audi Quattro is legendary. Don't know which is better.

So where does Porsche rank amongst those?

Is Porsche the same system as Quattro?
 

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Read Alphabet Soup: 4x4 vs 4WD vs AWD Where's the Differential? - The Truth About Cars The short version is, the Macan was supposed to be based on the C4. The Macan is real wheel biased not locked in 25/25/25/25.

Most crossover SUVs AFAIK you see out there are slip & grip. They are not equal distribution but power to the front drive wheels that only transferring power once the front slips. That's an issue. Thats not true of Subaru.

"Audi’s longitudinal systems and Subaru’s AWD systems claim to be different or superior to the competition, but in reality the only difference is that they merge the center and front differentials into the transmission housing resulting in a space savings, but not necessarily a weight savings. (Mercedes claims 4Matic will take a scant 150lb toll in 2014, 50lbs lighter than Quattro.) This also means that the Subaru systems share design elements with traditional rugged body-on-frame SUVs, something that Subaru owners seem to rarely know but might want to brag about."

Read the Subaru graphic in that article. Explanation there. Macan is not the same as Audi or Subaru nor the same as Cayenne. See http://www.awdwiki.com/en/porsche/ Cayenne is full time AWD. Macan see http://www.macanforum.com/forum/macan-general-discussion-forum/6705-macan-awd-system.html derived from the C4. Subaru is more in line with true 4 x 4 as the article explains. Macan is slip and grip.
 

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I read Grim's summary and the TTAC article. Still have no idea what or how these systems differ. But never got stuck driving Macan, Quattro, 4Matix, Xdrive or any of the other systems.
 

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As a Landscape Contractor in the late '70s/early 80s, my main vehicle for a while was a '66 Dodge Power Wagon, 3/4 ton, 4 wheel drive. It had the duty-bound 318 motor (produced from about '58-'71, almost unchanged) with 3 on the tree and real 4 wheel drive. To engage the system, I came to a complete stop, got out and turned the Warn hubs (NOT worn) with a 3/4 clockwise turn, hopped back in the cab, shifted the transfer case lever forward, which engaged the front axle. Tires, year round, were Coop deep tread snows (1-3/8") sold by Southern States.They had a pretty good hum to them. It also had a range lever, also on the floor, to the right of the transfer case lever. I rarely used anything but low range, as I just needed to creep along. My driveway was fairly steep, and that Power Wagon would just rip and claw it's way up through deep foot or more West Virginia snow. So, how would Bosco stack up next to the Macan's system, I'll let others be the judge. Boy, it sure was great, though.
 

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Macan in off road mode is fantastic, I'm not sure it's slip and grip in that mode as I believe it locks the wheels in. At any rate it can go up some pretty steep grades in really deep snow. Use it on my driveway all the time.

 

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I read Grim's summary and the TTAC article. Still have no idea what or how these systems differ. But never got stuck driving Macan, Quattro, 4Matix, Xdrive or any of the other systems.

OK, lets look at this closer. A generic description is here https://www.motoring.com.au/what-is-the-difference-between-4wd-and-awd-7530/

The old systems were part Time 4 x 4. You got out of the truck, locked the hubs, all wheels got power, but off road only. Can't drive on hard surfaces because you damaged the drivetrains. They also have two different sets of gearing, very low gearing for rock climbing. Cayennes had that or still do as an option. Need to look it up. Lock hubs, low gearing but electronic full time awd, not part time.

Today, CUV AWD sends power to "mostly" or 100% to the front axle. Think Nissan Rogue or Hondas CRV. They are FWD normally, just front wheels doing the work. When they detect the wheel slipping, the automatically send power to the rear wheels as needed. Macans are "rear biased", maybe 20/80? I don't know. This is because sports cars are RWD. Cayennes are something like 39/61 rear wheel Bias. Rear wheel bias is "sporty". Front wheel bias is ... mundane LOL. Can't lock the hubs? AFAIK = slip and grip. Computer senses loss of grip, send power to the other wheels. Lets see what Porsche says for the Macan Porsche Macan - Porsche AG

"Driving conditions are constantly monitored ... Sensors continuously check, among other variables, the rotation speeds of all four wheels, the longitudinal and lateral acceleration of the vehicle, and the steering angle. If, for example, the rear wheels threaten to spin under acceleration, a greater proportion of drive force is distributed to the front"

Slipped? Gripped. The bias is different than the Hondas and Nissan type vehicles. All the companies "brand their system names". Subaru is a bit different. All four wheels always have power. Here is one test. Audi and Porsche not in it but Audi and Porsche cost far, far more than the "normally" priced vehicle in the test, and obviously seems like Subaru marketing but the point is clear


I assume those in the snow belt get snow tires. Everyone says it's a big difference. Outside of the snow belt? It's all all-season tires. Few people buy these kind of cars and use performance tires, they are not performance vehicles. Best selling Crossovers are the Honda, followed by RAV4. Subarus grow like rabbits in the Pacific NW and NE. I see mostly Hondas. You can't throw a stick in suburban Mall parking lot without hitting a Honda CUV and they are perfectly fine for snow.
 

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OK, lets look at this closer. A generic description is here https://www.motoring.com.au/what-is-the-difference-between-4wd-and-awd-7530/
I appreciate your detailed replies. For the most part with CUV's we are talking about versions of AWD. Everyone calls them something different Porsche simple calls theirs All Wheel Drive. Audi has Quattro. BMW has xDrive. Mercedes has 4Matic. I have owned them all. (Subaru is different with power going to all wheels all the time.)

I believe these are all "slip and grip" type systems - with the only significant differences between what percentage of power is going to the front or back wheels at any given time. I believe what @MDJAK was asking was "where does Porsche rank amongst those?" Are they essentially the same? Would any of these systems make it up the hill in the youtube / Subaru video linked above? Is the Porsche "sportier" in day to day driving?
 

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I appreciate your detailed replies. For the most part with CUV's we are talking about versions of AWD. Everyone calls them something different Porsche simple calls theirs All Wheel Drive. Audi has Quattro. BMW has xDrive. Mercedes has 4Matic. I have owned them all. (Subaru is different with power going to all wheels all the time.)

I believe these are all "slip and grip" type systems - with the only significant differences between what percentage of power is going to the front or back wheels at any given time. I believe what @MDJAK was asking was "where does Porsche rank amongst those?" Are they essentially the same? Would any of these systems make it up the hill in the youtube / Subaru video linked above? Is the Porsche "sportier" in day to day driving?
Subaru is not slip & grip. Its full time AWD, 25/25/25/25 to all wheels all the time, AFAIK. All car makers have their own brand name. Porsche calls it Porsche Traction Management. See https://www.porsche.com/international/models/macan/macan-models/macan/drive/porsche-traction-management-ptm/ (PTM). The difference between these systems are the bias. Many CUVs are really FWD but transfer to back wheels on command. Macan is rear biased because "it sporty" like the C4.

I don't know if the Macan would make it up the hill. Can you find a video? I can't. The best I can say, and its only opinion, is that Subaru and Audi are well respected. I "expect" Macan to be in the same league as Audi, its brother. Don't confuse these with the ones like Cayenne, Jeep and the rest. They are superior, you can lock the hubs, they have a second set of gearing.

CUVs are for "soft roading", going on sand, dirt roads, snow. The more true 4 x 4 systems are for rock crawling. Don't try that with the CUVs. Tires alone are wrong. Someone here tried some bad roads in a Macan and tore up his tires. You need to proper off road tires. You don't really see these kind of tests. My guess is the Honda, Toyota,Subarus cost 1/2 the cost of a Macan. Kind of embarrassing if the Macan is at least not as good. But the Macan is, of course, faster. So where does PTM stand among the SUVs. My guess a peer to Audi, below, Subaru, above the rest of the pack. That's what I observe. That doesn't mean its correct. You'd have to get all the CUVs together, put on all the same brand tire, and try it out. Here are some tests. You can see which cars struggled and which it was easy.








 

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Who among us is going up hills as steep as the one in the video? Please don't try this at home.
Imagine the dirt hill covered with snow. I've tried to get up snow covered hills and drive slid back. It happens more than you think.

People with AWD think they are magic carpets. I see them in ditches in snow storms all the time. So for the hill, yeah, I've seen lots of snow covered hills, lived at the bottom of less inclined hill but driven up many, many snow covered hills. Hills are everywhere, depends upon where you live. Lots of youtube videos of this.
 

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Best traction I ever had was in Buck the Truck, my '56 Chevy 3100 1/2 ton pickup, 3 on the tree, 235 cubic inch 6, with heavy duty chains on the rear. Went up an uphill S, no prob. Other than my girlfriend almost getting frostbite while waiting for me to strap on the chains and owing to a heater that blew luke warm air at a whisper, it was an uneventful climb.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That Subaru video speaks volumes. But I still think they are overpriced and don’t like the interior or for that matter the exterior. I do like the sti.

Yesterday we had about 10” snow. My pany 4 was in commuter lot. Snow was plowed up to my hood and trunk when I finally got home. It drove out with no problem. But on 7 mile drive home it was doing some sliding and not once did traction control intervene, nor watching the torque distribution gauge did I see more than the usual very little power applied to front wheels. Made it home though by dodging trees in road and going under hanging power lines.
 

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Porsche Macan OFF ROAD button will give you all you need to get through sever weather conditions. It goes well to very well without it but if needed it’s great for extreme conditions. Pair w a set of snow tires and it’s one of the best you can have.
 

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During my PEC delivery, we went up and down a very steep dirt/rock hill similar to that Subaru video, including stopping midway up and then continuing. The Macan was a champ.

Watching the MDX on that diagonal test video, compared to the Macan rings true. My driveway is somewhat steep and the street in front of my house is also at an incline perpendicularly. So depending on how tight or wide I make my approach, I have a varying diagonal effect. We had Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 on the MDX with SH-AWD and on a couple occasions it had much difficulty getting up the drive, including a sideways drift towards the stone wall on the side... I was quite disappointed, as that awd system is otherwise quite good with true torque vectoring.

The Macan has proven to be much better up the driveway in winter.
 

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Now that all the ski areas closed down over the coronavirus situation I have to get my snow tires off quickly to save the tread for next season. As I have a second set of wheels that should be an easy task.
Where do you recommend to get that done? The place I used ended up ripping the new tire totes I put my tire set in.
 

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coming from Audi Q5 to the Macan, Quattro is not the same as the AWD on our Macan. The Macan is good with or without Off-road Switched, but the Quattro is far better.
 
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