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If you were in the market for sporty crossover in 2022, which would you theoretically pick?

  • 2021 Leftover Macan

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    Votes: 1 1.7%
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
5. EV Macan will be a heavy pig. ;)
Maybe.. The Model Y LR is currently 4,416 pounds vs the 4,370 lbs in the '21 Macan GTS.

Curious how there is very little difference between a EV and ICE of similar size.... Where does the weight savings from the Y come from? Reduced sound dampening? 馃
 

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EV Macan will probably be even heavier than Taycan as it鈥檚 simply bigger.
 

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Maybe.. The Model Y LR is currently 4,416 pounds vs the 4,370 lbs in the '21 Macan GTS.

Curious how there is very little difference between a EV and ICE of similar size.... Where does the weight savings from the Y come from? Reduced sound dampening? 馃
I think Model Y is smaller. It鈥檚 barely bigger (a bit taller) than the Model 3.
 

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My bet is on hydrogen fuel. ... cobalt is extremely scarce and more expensive.
Cobalt isn't required for EV batteries, though it's one of a few common cathode chemistries ... likely the way it'll work out:

(1.) Ultra high performance vehicles: high-nickel NMC (nickel-manganese-cobalt)
(2.) High performance vehicles, i.e., Macan: NMC / NAC (Tesla substitutes aluminum)
(3.) Budget vehicles: Iron phosphate, way cheaper, handles more cycles, but take a 10%-20% range/performance hit vs NMC/NAC
(4.) Volume vehicles: Mostly manganese, some nickel: Volkswagen announced this cathode, claiming a 30% cost reduction with no compromises

As noted, only 2 of the 4 already announced by VW and in use by others require cobalt.

Hydrogen will likely be special-use only as the infrastructure required is relatively massive including the supply chains, and the vehicle tech is a ways from mass market if that ever happens ... for example the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen has a refueling safety expiration date



Consumers know and understand electricity and they can easily create & store their own which comes in handy during storms, not to mention can turn into a household profit center both by selling power back to the grid and letting the grid use your car and battery for peak power storage. (V2G, vehicle-to-grid & H2G, home-to-grid).

And once consumers get a taste of a cheap instant torque ... well I don't think many will want something more complicated with less power.
 

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Cobalt isn't required for EV batteries, though it's one of a few common cathode chemistries ... likely the way it'll work out:

(1.) Ultra high performance vehicles: high-nickel NMC (nickel-manganese-cobalt)
(2.) High performance vehicles, i.e., Macan: NMC / NAC (Tesla substitutes aluminum)
(3.) Budget vehicles: Iron phosphate, way cheaper, handles more cycles, but take a 10%-20% range/performance hit vs NMC/NAC
(4.) Volume vehicles: Mostly manganese, some nickel: Volkswagen announced this cathode, claiming a 30% cost reduction with no compromises

As noted, only 2 of the 4 already announced by VW and in use by others require cobalt.

Hydrogen will likely be special-use only as the infrastructure required is relatively massive including the supply chains, and the vehicle tech is a ways from mass market if that ever happens ... for example the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen has a refueling safety expiration date



Consumers know and understand electricity and they can easily create & store their own which comes in handy during storms, not to mention can turn into a household profit center both by selling power back to the grid and letting the grid use your car and battery for peak power storage. (V2G, vehicle-to-grid & H2G, home-to-grid).

And once consumers get a taste of a cheap instant torque ... well I don't think many will want something more complicated with less power.
I believe in renewables and have a 10.3 kw home solar energy system. It has more than paid for itself and we have three HVAC systems for our 4,000sf home and hardly have an electric bill each month. Don't believe all the hype about selling excess electricity back to the grid becuase it's only pennies on a dollar.

The one major drawback currently with hydrogen, it's the most expensive comparing it to batteries and petro but will come down with demand. There is already a company (Hyon was one in Europe but can't remember the name of the company in the US off the top of my head) and others in development which manufactures a self generating hydrogen refueling station. Currently for industrial use but I would imagine a commerical and/or home model would be manufactured as some point as the demand increases. No logistical issues at all with this system since each one generates their own hydrogen on site. Almost looks like a petro pump and their plan is to work with big oil and have these installed at existing service stations around the country. Just stick the nozzle in the filling point and pump away and takes less time than petro. Sure is a lot less complicated than trying to locate an EV charging station. Big rigs are also another area being developed since the hydrogen system has a longer range than EV. Industrial use such as forklifts and generators has started. Ships are also in development. Green energy is the future and the things I mentioned are just the beginning. It's coming, just read up on companies such as Plug Power, Bloom Energy, FuelCell Energy, Cummins, Air Products & Chemicals and Ballard Power Systems. There are others but currently these are the leaders in using hydrogen. This revolution exploded starting last year but look at this in ten years and you will see what I'm talking about. There are already some contracts with big corporations like Amazon and WalMart, cities in South Korea and Europe and renewable energy utility companies such as Brookfield Renewable Corporation and NextEra Energy and growing. Since I'm such a nice guy....I just gave you some free stock advice/tips, and a chance to make some serious money on hydrogen plays but since you don't believe in the hydrogen revolution, I guess you'll just miss out! ;)
 
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I just gave you some free stock advice/tips, and a chance to make some serious money on hydrogen plays but since you don't believe in the hydrogen revolution, I guess you'll just miss out! ;)
Ha, yup i'll definitely be missing out on hydrogen - just not a believer for consumer vehicles ... definitely for semi-trucks & delivery trucks, but not for consumer vehicles ... but who knows?

TBH, I think Big Oil is going to ruin hydrogen because of this:



there are a couple of types and, guess what? Some aren't so clean ...



And those not so clean types happen to be MUCH cheaper than green hydrogen:



In short, EVs charge at home for most people and once consumers realize they don't have to go to the gas station any longer why would they suddenly want to make a special stop at the hydrogen station?

Add it up and a consumer hydrogen car is slower, more expensive, less convenient, has a shorter lifespan, and requires more maintenance than an EV ... and still requires a small EV system!

Doesn't look like a winning product formula to me, but, like I said, who knows??
 

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I鈥檒l believe in electric cars when they stop being $120,000 playthings for the ultra rich on the coasts and the average American will actually want to buy one, not be forced to do so by the government.

Right now the minute I venture away from the EV bubble that is the SF bay area, the most common vehicles are Ford pick up trucks.
 

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Right now the minute I venture away from the EV bubble that is the SF bay area, the most common vehicles are Ford pick up trucks.
Back in 2008 whenever I ventured away from the bay area the most common cell phones were nokia - just sayin.

It should be noted the Chinese have yet to enter the US EV market, but are building up quite the massive portfolio of vehicles to do it - it'll be similar to the Japan auto invasion in the 80s ... here's what that looked like 1961 - 2016:

 

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I remember it was GM who did the first hybrid/EV car many years ago.

Do you know Kodak invented the digital camera? But it shelved the invention because their film business was too good to let go. :cautious:
 
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I remember it was GM who did the first hybrid/EV car many years ago.

Do you know Kodak invented the digital camera? But it shelved the invention because their film business was too good to let go. :cautious:
Sort of.

Only in the 21st century did we have the technology to make it work in terms of photo sensors, processors, and storage.
 

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I remember it was GM who did the first hybrid/EV car many years ago.
Yup, BMW had their Active-E project on the road in 2010, and they were selling the i3 in 2011 ... and then they more/less killed them on the hope plan.

I understand wanting to focus on other disruption risks like China and SUVs, but the strategic mistake is, if you get EVs wrong, it impacts the others.

Porsche had the balls to commit to the Taycan in 2015 and delivered one year early in 2019, though I bet if they had the choice again they'd do an SUV instead.
 

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Sort of looks like a variant of the Q5 Coupe or a smaller version of the Cayenne Coupe to me,
 

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The question is will the ICE versions have the same body style as the EV? And will Porsche actually keep producing ICE versions?
 

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I voted for a 2022 ICE but if the EV looks anything like this, then I might have to reconsider the charging challenges I would face here in NYC ;-)

View attachment 241360
Yes, this is the Cross Turismo, and Porsche has hit a home run with it. One of the reasons why many of us have bought Macans is because we don't like the "pig-like" stance/appearance and the bulk and high center-of-gravity of the Cayenne. The Cross Turismo is much more my kind of vehicle than is the Cayenne -- much closer to the Macan. I like the 7 inches of ground clearance in high-lift mode in the CT (compared to 8 inches for the steel-suspension Macan) but with that lower-than-Macan center-of-gravity and better on-road stability. Even though it weighs a thousand pounds more than the ICE Macan, the CT sounds like it handles much better than the Macan at high speeds and in corners.
 
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