[iconoclast]

The life expectancy of an automatic transmission is largely dependent on the transmission fluid operating temperature. If the temperature is maintained around 175°F, the fluid should be good for around 100,000 miles. For every 20°F above that target, the oxidation rate doubles and the fluid life is cut in half. Since the transmission fluid temperature isn't rigorously monitored, and the cost of a transmission failure is very high, it makes sense to simply change the fluid at an earlier interval.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1110-technical-questions-and-answers/

https://streetsmarttransmission.com/transmission-fluid-application-guide/

Interesting articles. However, unless I missed something, seems they still refer to miles & not time. If TF gets too hot, should change it earlier mileage vs. if it does not get too hot. Nothing about time with low miles.

 

[Kannassee]

Hi everyone,

I had an interesting conversation with the co-owner of Ralph's Porsche (located in Reisterstown, MD) yesterday about the Macan PDK service. First of all, if you are located near Reisterstown, MD and need a trustworthy non-dealership Porsche garage, it does not get any better than this place! Check them out! So I took my 2015 Macan Turbo in for its 80K service for which I still needed a brake fluid flush and PDK service. They took care of the brake flush no problem and then called me about the PDK service. The co-owner was on a conference call with Champion Porsche, Porsche Atlanta, and Porsche Towson trying to get each locations opinion about performing the PDK service or leaving it alone. They were going back and forth whether or not the PDK needs to be serviced every 40K miles or not. They came to the conclusion that it is better to not touch it (until much higher mileage, around 200K or so, or if you begin to notice/feel issues with the transmission). They said that the PDK is basically bulletproof and unless you are racing the car, the PDK should not be serviced as frequently as Porsche recommends. I was told that they see more issues arise after servicing them versus the vehicles that they don't touch. Nearly 2 years ago at my 40K service I paid a Porsche dealership (name withheld because I do not know all of the facts) to perform the PDK service and I was told it was completed along with the other 40K service items that I needed. The guys at Ralph's said it does not look like the transmission was ever serviced on my car. I have no idea if they have any real way to tell that but it does make you wonder if the work you pay for is the work being performed.

Anyways, has anyone else heard this story of not touching the PDK every 40K miles? I am interested to hear your opinion on this matter and how you handle the PDK services.

-GULFER1

It's not that odd.....at 40K miles my local dealer also refused to do it......I took it then later to Champion Porsche and at least they told me they did it......although it seems they have a different opinion now?.......I wanted to do it just in case there may be problems with the PDK later down the road, and then it WOULD be a problem because it was NOT serviced as recommended by Porsche!!!

 

[aftCG]

However, if the PDK service is for the clutches like those in a manual transmission, the clutch fluid doesn't need to be changed so often. Porsche also recommends to change the auto transmission fluid at 180k miles, if I remember it right.

FYI, not the same at all. Clutch fluid in the case of a normal dry plate clutch is the same as a simple brake master cylinder/slave cylinder thing. It provides the "push" in the hydraulic line from the pedal to cause the pressure plate to release.

The PDK has no master/slave cylinder set up (at least not in the conventional sense). The clutch discs are wet in the case of the PDK. Cooling, lubrication, carrying away worn particles.

 

[aftCG]

The life expectancy of an automatic transmission is largely dependent on the transmission fluid operating temperature. If the temperature is maintained around 175°F, the fluid should be good for around 100,000 miles. For every 20°F above that target, the oxidation rate doubles and the fluid life is cut in half. Since the transmission fluid temperature isn't rigorously monitored, and the cost of a transmission failure is very high, it makes sense to simply change the fluid at an earlier interval.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1110-technical-questions-and-answers/

https://streetsmarttransmission.com/transmission-fluid-application-guide/

Except these aren't automatic transmissions. It may shift it's own gears if you let it, but that is a straight up constant mesh manual gearbox. A conventional automatic transmission (which a Tiptronic is) shares fluid with the torque converter and are heinously complicated hydraulic pumps.
The fluid in the Macan transmission will not see extreme heat even towing a trailer up a mountain and will not have "cooked" fluid pumping through its veins.

 

[jzwu]

Good info!

So the PDK fluid needs to be changed per Porsche recommendation?

 

[SoCalS5]

Except these aren't automatic transmissions......The fluid in the Macan transmission will not see extreme heat even towing a trailer up a mountain and will not have "cooked" fluid pumping through its veins.

Yes; completely understand the hydraulic circuit differences between traditional automatic transmissions and DSG's like the Audi DL501. But since I can't monitor the PDK / DSG fluid temperature and verify the assumption that its temperature always remains within an acceptable range, I'll personally stick with the Porsche recommended fluid change intervals. That's just my two cents.

 

[LG&LGMacanS]

The only reason Porsche recommends the 40,000 mile service is so they can bring in more revenue from the suckers who do the service at a Porsche dealership. (((granted, not everyone is a sucker, some people just have money to burn and don't care...in those cases its just throwing money away as long as they are informed that the service can be done elsewhere and for a fraction of the cost.))) That extra RIP-OFF revenue helps to cover warranty items that break on the Macan, which there are many. At 39,000 miles our new (used 2017) last month had $6,200 worth of warranty work done. Transfer Case failing and the Rear Driveshaft and housing were literals;y falling apart in pieces. And the two mid exhaust pipes had cracks and were coming loose.

I just got sa price from a local Porsche shop (not a dealer) to do the entire 40,000 mile checklist......EVERYTHING on the checklist. My friend has been taking his two Porsches here since they were purchased new and now I'm using this shop.

Total labor charge....$292.00 for 3.5 hours of labor. I am supplying the Suncoast PDK fluid/filter change kit and the Engine Oil change parts for $64.00. $40.00 for all the oil needed at Walmart and buy the filter separately.

$545.00.....100% complete 40,000 mile service. My dealer told me to just keep the receipts and check list from that shop so in case later open down the road Porsche heads nothing to say about any warranty work that might have to do with NOT having done that service. And since the Federal Gov prohibits any manufacturer that sells cars in the USA to void warranties only because they did not use the dealership......WHY-O-WHY would anyone ever go to the Porsche dealer for any service work.

PDK service can be done in your driveway in 1 hour, by anyone who knows how to do oil changes on any car. The engine oil change is easier than changing the oil on my Vette or Trans Am WS6. Its a cakewalk. BUT, since this shop is a respected Porsche shop and they have a lift......and they will provide me with a completed and signed 40,000 mile checklist and invoice.......its worth paying them $292.00 to have those documents and I don't have to spend 2+ hours doing it all myself without a lift.

 

[LG&LGMacanS]

After meeting and talking to a lot of Porsche owners in the past 4 months after buying our 2017 Macan I am hearing from quite a few people that own macaws and Panameras and 911's........who only change transmission fluid FILTERS.....they do not touch the fluid if its clean. They purchase the Suncoast PDK kit.....but they just keep it for later on when they do the actual fluid change. They buy the filter separately to just change that.

Seems logical.......

Engine oil is too easy and too cheap not to change every 5,000 miles. No way I'll ever let an engine of mine go 10,000 miles....thats ridiculous. The only way to get longevity out of an engine is to have clean oil..... Oil cannot be clean after about 5,000 miles.....

 

[jzwu]

Your logic is kinda contradictory.

On one hand, you blast the 40k miles PDK service as a unnecessary ripoff. On the other hand, you condemn the 10k miles oil change being too late and swear by 5k miles oil change. Guess you’re the rightest person in the world?

Hmmmmmmm

 

[LG&LGMacanS]

........................

 

[LG&LGMacanS]

jzwu,

I have the knowledge to understand that there's no oil on earth that can stay clean past about 5,000 miles. Thats after doing 20 years of oil analysis on most of my cars and learning what works and what does not work. High HP builds. So 5,000 mile oil changes are just smart only if you care about longevity.....especially if one plans to continue ownership beyond the powertrain warranty period. One of my street-strip cars just had the rear end rebuilt after 220,000 miles on it...it was installed on my car in 2002......it was recommended by the manufacturer, Strange, to do it every 30,000 miles. All I did was drain a little fluid periodically and then top it off. Never did a full dump, cleaning and change. Its a sealed system, dirt cannot get in unless you have a bearing failure, so all it needed was a little drained out every year or so and topped off, just because fluids break down over time. I just this year after did a full rebuild on it because it should have about 1,300 RWHP pretty soon after the Procharger F1x kit goes ion, so I wanted to start with a fresh, all new set up. 17 years......they recommended 6 rebuilds and dozens of fluid changes in that time. Unnecessary.......

The 40,000 mile service is 100% unnecessary. People are basically paying $1,600 and higher for Porsche to tell a customer that nothing is wrong with their car on THAT DAY.....the fluid that comes out of ALL 40,000 mile services (NOT engine oil)........is extremely clean and not burnt. Unless the vehicle went through some kind of extreme problem.

The Porsche technician who installed our new Transfer Case and rear driveshaft told me that fluids are sparkling clean when removed and all they really need to do is change the filter......he basically said its just assurance that Porsche will not void your warranty later.
But anyone with a brain knows its a revenue generator because they know they will be paying for warranty work on a lot of cars.....my work was $6,200. And the Macan is a vehicle that has a lot of issues. You either have Macans that have broken down or ones that will break down, while under warranty. Almost impossible for one to not have warranty repairs. Thats why the Fed Gov prohibits dealers from REQUIRING customers to do the service at a dealership. Some dealerships lie to their customers and tell them they MUST do the service at their dealer.....some salesman and service writers don't lie.

 

[LG&LGMacanS]

And to further prove beyond any doubt that these dealership performed services are ONLY a revenue generator, the parts for the 40,000 mile service is only about $260.00. These thieves are charging $1,600 to $3,500 for that service.

Therefore, labor cost is $1,340 to $3,240. This entire service only takes 2 hours total by an experienced technician, which all of them at Porsche are...... One tech can do 3 in one day....... But they charge those sky high prices.

So they are making $670 to $1,620 per labor hour...........thats hilarious.

Its a revenue generator and nothing more.

 

[JohnC4S]

I guess I am a brainless sucker....

John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jzwu]

I don’t question dealer overcharges for services. But whether Porsche recommended 40k miles service is really needed or not remains to be seen. But these two are different matters. You can always DIY or go to an Indy.

Ohh, oil gets dirty after even 100 miles.

 

[SoCalS5]

The only reason Porsche recommends the 40,000 mile service is so they can bring in more revenue from the suckers who do the service at a Porsche dealership.

So is it true that corporate Porsche gets a percentage of what dealerships charge for maintenance? I can see that perhaps Porsche might make a little money off parts sold to the dealership.....in this case the transmission fluid (unless the dealership buys fluids in bulk from a third party). I would be surprised if a percentage of the labor cost goes back to Porsche.

And if Auto Manufacturers did make money off fluid changes, why extend engine oil changes to 10,000 miles with synthetic lubricants rather than recommend 3000 mile oil changes with standard motor oil?

On the other hand, it's certainly true that many dealerships have been known to push fluid flushes far more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation. So I understand the concern folks may have on this topic.

 

[shorton335]

For spark plugs & for engine air filters, Everything I have ever read or heard is mileage...never time. Obviously, dusty environments make a difference.

I agree with you, plug tips dont wear from time, they wear with firing. I think Porsche's concern with time is corrosion and a seized plug in an aluminum head.