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I wouldn't overthink this

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Both CTEK extension & a proper gauge outdoor extension cord work just fine. (I have & use both)

It depends on exactly where you wish the extra length to be located.

I use the CTEK extension so that when I use the 12V CTEK adapter in the back seat outlet, I do NOT need to place the actual charger inside the car. (It gets HOT!)

When charging batteries in other cars, I connect directly to the batteries. So, I do not need the CTEK extension.

grim explained the extension cord issue well.
 
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When we charge our batteries & then test with multimeter to see if they reached full charge, are we making an error that could result in false positive readings? I think I have been doing just that!

From mechanics stack exchange & Battery University:
"What is surface charge and how does it affect battery testing?"

Q: I’ve read in numerous places that "surface charge" can give false positives when testing a battery, and you need to remove the said surface charge to get an accurate result. I've also read various recommendations for removing surface charge such as turn on the brights for thirty seconds, disconnect the ignition and crank the engine for fifteen seconds, turn on your load tester for 15 seconds, turn it off then take a reading after a further 10 seconds of load, or leave the battery sitting overnight for twelve hours.
So what exactly is the science behind surface charge's effect and what's the relative effectiveness of various methods of removing it?
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A: I have often heard this term as well, but have never known the technical reasons or the actual root cause of what is known as a "surface charge". To figure it out, I took a gander at a website called the "Battery University". They state the following about a surface charge:
Lead acid batteries are sluggish and cannot convert lead sulfate to lead and lead dioxide quickly during charge. This delayed action causes most of the charge activities to occur on the plate surfaces, resulting in an elevated state-of-charge (SoC) on the outside.
The cure for a surface charge is reversible, so have no fear. They go on to state:
A battery with surface charge has a slightly elevated voltage and gives a false voltage-based SoC reading. To normalize the condition, switch on electrical loads to remove about 1 percent of the battery’s capacity or allow the battery to rest for a few hours. Turning on the headlights for a few minutes will do this. Surface charge is not a battery defect but a reversible condition.
To get past the surface charge state, you do pretty much as you stated and introduce a load onto the battery for a short period of time.
One of the issues here is I believe a lot of people just call any battery situation where the battery doesn't have very much longevity in cranking a "surface charge", meaning their diagnosis with the battery is actually incorrect. There are other battery issues which people might misstate as a surface charge, yet aren't. Reading through the page, it states a couple of other common battery issues and how to fix them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow link to read the rest:

 

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I have a huge old battery load tester that has a twist knob that you use to remove the surface charge before you read the voltage and look to see what color region the needle is in. The colors indicate the "condition" of the battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #126
When we charge our batteries & then test with multimeter to see if they reached full charge, are we making an error that could result in false positive readings? I think I have been doing just that!

From mechanics stack exchange & Battery University:
"What is surface charge and how does it affect battery testing?"

Q: I’ve read in numerous places that "surface charge" can give false positives when testing a battery, and you need to remove the said surface charge to get an accurate result. I've also read various recommendations for removing surface charge such as turn on the brights for thirty seconds, disconnect the ignition and crank the engine for fifteen seconds, turn on your load tester for 15 seconds, turn it off then take a reading after a further 10 seconds of load, or leave the battery sitting overnight for twelve hours.
So what exactly is the science behind surface charge's effect and what's the relative effectiveness of various methods of removing it?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A: I have often heard this term as well, but have never known the technical reasons or the actual root cause of what is known as a "surface charge". To figure it out, I took a gander at a website called the "Battery University". They state the following about a surface charge:
Lead acid batteries are sluggish and cannot convert lead sulfate to lead and lead dioxide quickly during charge. This delayed action causes most of the charge activities to occur on the plate surfaces, resulting in an elevated state-of-charge (SoC) on the outside.
The cure for a surface charge is reversible, so have no fear. They go on to state:
A battery with surface charge has a slightly elevated voltage and gives a false voltage-based SoC reading. To normalize the condition, switch on electrical loads to remove about 1 percent of the battery’s capacity or allow the battery to rest for a few hours. Turning on the headlights for a few minutes will do this. Surface charge is not a battery defect but a reversible condition.
To get past the surface charge state, you do pretty much as you stated and introduce a load onto the battery for a short period of time.
One of the issues here is I believe a lot of people just call any battery situation where the battery doesn't have very much longevity in cranking a "surface charge", meaning their diagnosis with the battery is actually incorrect. There are other battery issues which people might misstate as a surface charge, yet aren't. Reading through the page, it states a couple of other common battery issues and how to fix them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow link to read the rest:

Read Car and Deep Cycle Battery Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Section 4
 

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Wait 2-8 hours?! I had thought wait ½ - 1 hr.
Turn on headlights on high beam for 5 minutes & then off & wait 10 minutes?
I had heard much shorter times.

I wonder how many people who use CTK on Macan do this b4 testing the Battery Voltage with their MM? And which method do they use & how long?

I think I will try to wait 2 hours next time & see. I will probably take a V reading right after I disconnect the charger & again 2 hours later to see the difference.

I wonder if having the trunk lights, rear hatch lights or 911 frunk light on when testing is enough to dissipate the surface charge? Probably not completely.

If Macan battery V is tested from the under hood jump start terminals after a charge and the driver door is opened just b4 the test to release the hood, is the waking up of all the electronics enough to dissipate the surface charge?
I bet the V reading at jump start is a bit less than at battery posts. I think someone here on MF may have tested that but don't recall. Good test would be to have hatch open & battery exposed & also have hood open & charging direct to battery & then immediately after CTEK showed fully charged, you tested V @ battery & then @ jump start posts. Note the data & then dissipate the surface charge by either waiting 2+ hours or do the high beam on 5 minutes & off for 10 & retest at both locations.
 

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Discussion Starter #128
@iconoclast you're over thinking this. You got no answers on the battery analyzer because people don't care. Nobody thinks about any of this. When the battery dies, they have AAA bring them a new one or go off to Sears and buy a new DieHard. Until then, they never think once about this.

Batteries are consumables. Everyone knows they will die and you will need to buy a new one. The $800 cost for a Porsche battery is the cost of doing business. Buy the logo, buy the Porsche Tax.

Here, experience is that the batteries, without being tended, will die early. Who wants to spend that $800 early? Porsche seems bad with the battery drain. Too much electronics working while the car sits idle? So worrying about voltage readings is "not a thing". Buying a new analyzer is not a thing. Even a DIY might use it once in 4 or 5 years but since batteries are consumables, people just don't care. They do know they will consume the battery and have to buy a new one. Even those who might buy one, knowing the voltage really doesn't matter. So what if its 12.5 vs 12.48? Notice the CTEK analyzer just says Good, Recharge, and Bad? That's good enough. All batteries die.

The issue of charging the battery is a REAL problem. Let the car sit, the battery dies. Its important enough to put in the warranty book. So just charge the car once in awhile. As the battery ages, its not a bad idea to carry around a booster pack. I know this frustrates those with a mind for details but in real life, whether you wait 1 hour or 10 hours, to test voltage, no one is going to do that. Its too much work. Its made worse by the fact the battery is in the worst place imaginable, buried under the spare tire and way too much work to get access. :(

Too much information is no information. Eyes glaze over ? :)
 

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I know most people don't care but I care. I prefer to use my tools correctly. I know I'm in the minority on this. Doesn't bother me. Note the number of views & replies on the threads re Macan battery charging & battery replacment.

Yes, it bother me when I learn new information that makes me realize I have been doing something wrong for a long time ;)

RE Porsche tax, For me & I think others, it is not so much the overcharging for something that is relatively simple but, not being OK with so someone (Porsche) taking advantage of us. The old jokes (Unrelated to Porsche) about blinker fluid & changing the air in tires are retold for a reason.

Re Macan AGM battery, specifically... AGM batteries supposedly last 2x as long as old style flooded lead acid batteries.
Letting the car sit...for how long? Certainly for garage queens (mostly 911 & Cayman/Boxter) if not driving for a month or more it makes sense to use a tender. However, if you drive your Macan 2x/week, 20-40 miles each time, does that mean you will need a battery replacement in 3-5 years?

Macan is the 1st car I've owned where there are easy to access jump start terminals due to "hidden" battery. Also 1st car where there are a lot of electronics that seem to draw significant current from the battery. I enjoy learning about the best way to maintain it.

I would love to be able to get 6-8 years out of my fancy AGM battery. (I don't think I'll come very close to that)
 

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I basically drive my Macan once a week for a relatively long drive or two. So far, almost 5 years and ~38k miles the OEM battery is still running strong.

The longest I let my Macan sit was 3-4 weeks in my garage. The ambient temp here is very moderate (low 40s in winter to high 90s in summer), which helps the battery last longer, I believe.

Never used a battery charger before (except once to test it for a few hours last week). I say don't worry too much about it as long as you drive the car at least once a week (or even 2-3 weeks) to fully charge the battery. Otherwise, just use a battery charger from time to time.
 
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Discussion Starter #131
Re Macan AGM battery, specifically... AGM batteries supposedly last 2x as long as old style flooded lead acid batteries.
Letting the car sit...for how long? Certainly for garage queens (mostly 911 & Cayman/Boxter) if not driving for a month or more it makes sense to use a tender. However, if you drive your Macan 2x/week, 20-40 miles each time, does that mean you will need a battery replacement in 3-5 years?
40 miles x 2 x 52 = =~4K miles. Nowhere close to the minimum 6K for warranty coverage. So what do you think?

I would love to be able to get 6-8 years out of my fancy AGM battery. (I don't think I'll come very close to that)
This is true for your 911 too. There are some here who put on 15K per year. They might get 6 years. The other thing not good for you is location. Heat is a killer.

I basically drive my Macan once a week for a relatively long drive or two. So far, almost 5 years and ~38k miles the OEM battery is still running strong.
38/5 = 7,600 miles. Your good. And, you are doing it right. The killer is driving the car 5 miles, make a stop, 8 miles, get lunch, 3 miles, stop at a store, 5 miles home. Thats 21 miles but FOUR starts. The car is not being driven long enough to get recharged from starting. So the battery drains. That kind of driving is "severe" driving. It deserves the "severe" maintenance schedule and not the routine schedule. Most people drive like this. Stop and go traffic is bad. Lots of red lights is bad. OTOH, highway miles are easy miles.

Your temps are good too. Sounds like few 90+ days and no freezing days. No big variance. Heat is the killer. Batteries in the south go quickly compared to batteries in the north. They say the heat "ages" the batteries and then the cold "kills" the battery. I've seen at least two people the other day getting jump starts and car towed. And its not even cold (thank you global warming, its been a mild winter :) ).

I've been doing this a long time, that is, worrying about these stupid batteries about 12 years. The Porsches just don't get driven enough. They are just toys. Wife goes to the store, 4 miles, comes home 4 miles. Not driven enough. Go get Groceries? Sure, 5 miles each way. These are all killer activities. No long 20 mile rides each way. I have to go drive to just drive to do that. I know the batteries are dying. So, they go on a tender once a week to get a full charge. Its the price of ownership. I did this today. Everything I need to go to is within maybe 6 mile radius. 4 miles to small shopping center then home. 3 miles to a restaurant and home. All "bad" driving.

However, I'm not going to get an analyzer. When @iconoclast talked about it, I looked at them. I see the Clore version. Topdon gets a lot of reviews. The best seems to be Foxwell at twice the price. I see some do give the exact numbers and others like the CTEK version just tell you good or bad. Its too much information. I'd look at it and worry about it. Instead, I PLAN for the battery to die.

Feb 9, 2014
The battery will tend to die. It’s easy to research this and see all the threads. This isn’t a car where you just leave it a week or two, go on vacation, come back, and just start it. Yes, there will always be some anecdotal story where someone left it for a month and it started fine. Anecdotal stories mean little. There is a reason why this is mentioned in the warranty book and a reason they sell a battery tender in their accessory catalog. Get on a first name basis with it. A battery tender will become your new best friend. Figure out how to use it and plan on using it if the car sits
How did we ever live without all these digital toys?

BTW, one thing to watch out for is anecdotal data. Some people will say "I got 8 years and good". So what? What is the average? What are the conditions. Were the miles all highway miles at 70 degrees or was he in the desert, 110 in summer? How about ice and cold? Anecdotal data is meaningless.

I'm beginning to think a better idea is this CTEK CTX Battery Sense

But this BT device gets virtually no reviews, no one buying it? There are a few others but they just don't get many reviews on Amazon or anywhere else.
 

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40 miles x 2 x 52 = =~4K miles. Nowhere close to the minimum 6K for warranty coverage. So what do you think?



This is true for your 911 too. There are some here who put on 15K per year. They might get 6 years. The other thing not good for you is location. Heat is a killer.



38/5 = 7,600 miles. Your good. And, you are doing it right. The killer is driving the car 5 miles, make a stop, 8 miles, get lunch, 3 miles, stop at a store, 5 miles home. Thats 21 miles but FOUR starts. The car is not being driven long enough to get recharged from starting. So the battery drains. That kind of driving is "severe" driving. It deserves the "severe" maintenance schedule and not the routine schedule. Most people drive like this. Stop and go traffic is bad. Lots of red lights is bad. OTOH, highway miles are easy miles.

Your temps are good too. Sounds like few 90+ days and no freezing days. No big variance. Heat is the killer. Batteries in the south go quickly compared to batteries in the north. They say the heat "ages" the batteries and then the cold "kills" the battery. I've seen at least two people the other day getting jump starts and car towed. And its not even cold (thank you global warming, its been a mild winter :) ).

I've been doing this a long time, that is, worrying about these stupid batteries about 12 years. The Porsches just don't get driven enough. They are just toys. Wife goes to the store, 4 miles, comes home 4 miles. Not driven enough. Go get Groceries? Sure, 5 miles each way. These are all killer activities. No long 20 mile rides each way. I have to go drive to just drive to do that. I know the batteries are dying. So, they go on a tender once a week to get a full charge. Its the price of ownership. I did this today. Everything I need to go to is within maybe 6 mile radius. 4 miles to small shopping center then home. 3 miles to a restaurant and home. All "bad" driving.

However, I'm not going to get an analyzer. When @iconoclast talked about it, I looked at them. I see the Clore version. Topdon gets a lot of reviews. The best seems to be Foxwell at twice the price. I see some do give the exact numbers and others like the CTEK version just tell you good or bad. Its too much information. I'd look at it and worry about it. Instead, I PLAN for the battery to die.

Feb 9, 2014

How did we ever live without all these digital toys?

BTW, one thing to watch out for is anecdotal data. Some people will say "I got 8 years and good". So what? What is the average? What are the conditions. Were the miles all highway miles at 70 degrees or was he in the desert, 110 in summer? How about ice and cold? Anecdotal data is meaningless.

I'm beginning to think a better idea is this CTEK CTX Battery Sense

But this BT device gets virtually no reviews, no one buying it? There are a few others but they just don't get many reviews on Amazon or anywhere else.

Grim-- I would assume that the Porsche battery warning system which monitors the battery is using the same or similar technology as the small handhelds and perhaps sensor module of the CTX. It just flashes yellow or red.
 

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40 miles x 2 x 52 = =~4K miles. Nowhere close to the minimum 6K for warranty coverage. So what do you think?



This is true for your 911 too.
I'm aware <GRIN>

I drove my Macan much less the past year since I got my 911. Still love them both.
Macan past warranty now.
911 had ~ 5700 mi when I brought it in for "free" 1st year service.

I will hopefully do some road trips this year which will help.

My old Jag only gets driven ~ 1x/week now.
Not sure it is a fair battery comparison since it lacks the stop start & many electronics that are in the Porsches.
But > 2 years ago, I replaced a marginal Interstate flooded battery with a Bosch AGM that happens to fit the Macan & the 911.

My recent tests (See my SOH post) have the Jag 2 yr. old Bosch closest to perfect SOH!

I think I will buy another Bosch AGM from Pep Boys when I need a new battery... for both Porsches.
I may need to do so soon with the Macan. I'm waiting for the 1st sign of slow crank start.
 

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Grim-- I would assume that the Porsche battery warning system which monitors the battery is using the same or similar technology as the small handhelds and perhaps sensor module of the CTX. It just flashes yellow or red.
IDK, maybe.
I think battery voltage drops, even in 1 day, with the Macan that is driven enough to fully charge the battery (much highway, many miles) Maybe to ~ 60-70% of full charge. This s/b just fine.

I like grim's idea of regularly putting it on the tender. Frequency probably should be dependent on how you drive. If most days short trips & stop & go? 1x/wk as grim does.

Seems like good preventative maintenance.
 

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That is why the first thing I did when I bought my SE is to install a hardwire connector directly to the terminals so I can easily attach my Ctec.

As far as judging the true health of the battery--- I am thinking that the yellow or red battery warning light could be based upon capacity testing that the BCS constantly measures. When the yellow battery light pops on you know that you need to start looking for a new battery.
 

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Using the CTEK MUS 4.3 to TEST your Battery & charging system?

Obviously, if you try to charge your battery & it gives you an error message or fails to charge after a very long time (2 days?) you know your battery needs replacement.

But I see my manual CTEK MUS 4.3 (1065) does NOT have a test section but...
Another manual CTEK MUS 4.3 (1077) DOES.

Both are MUS 4.3 but apparently different.

Attached find both PDF manuals.
 

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Curious.

My CTEK MUS 4.3 is a 1078 and it has a Step 5 - Analyze (though they spell it with an 's'):

Tests if the battery can hold a charge. Batteries that cannot hold charge may need to be replaced.

Understatement. As I noted before, a definition of a bad battery is one that will not hold a charge.
 

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Discussion Starter #139
But I see my manual CTEK MUS 4.3 (1065) does NOT have a test section but...
Another manual CTEK MUS 4.3 (1077) DOES.

Both are MUS 4.3 but apparently different.

Attached find both PDF manuals.
This is why. In the second post, I showed a picture of a five year old 4.3 MUS. AFAIK, that has been superseded by the MXS 5.0 which is still 4.3 Amps. Then, the 4.3 MUS Test and Charge showed up for more money. So you're looking at the old 4.3 MUS and new 4.3 MUS Test and Charge.

The new 4.3 does everything your new Clore tester does but with lights. It doesn't tell you the exact SOH or voltage but is as simple as the CTEK battery analyzer. I imagine it used the exact same algorithm and chips.

Your old 4.3 still does the analyze phases in step 2 and 5. There is is nothing wrong with it.

Remember I said, a man with two watches doesn't know what time it is? Now go to your SOH thread to follow up.
 

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So there are at least 3 versions of the old MUS 4.3; 1065, 1077 & 1078. Probably more versions.
I don't think there is "Anything wrong" with my MUS 4.3 (1065)
I just think the only thing I can do to "test" my battery with it, is to charge it & see if I get to step 7/green or I end up with an error light. Unless I pull up a chair & stare at it for 10-20 + hours, I would not know if step 2 or step 5 triggered the error.
It is interesting that the (1077) version can do the testing if you choose according to the manual. I just skimmed the 1077 manual.

I suppose anyone looking to buy a new CTEK would buy the MXS 5.0 or the Test & Charge or the 7002... if they want the ability to supply voltage during a battery change.
 
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