Will do on the razor knife, thanks for the tip.
Can you elaborate more on the shim for the sides?
Aftermarket Sway Bar Upgrades?
I have searched here and other sources online, and can not find anyone offering them, so as a last resort, does anyone know of any place that sells upgraded sway bars? I'm running KW V3 coilovers, but would really like to reduce more of the body roll in corners, and dial out more of the understeer with a stiffer rear bar.
161 - 180 of 220 Posts
Can you elaborate more on the shim for the sides?
This is a great thread . . . but has taken on a very DIY frame of reference. I have no ability to DIY this project. Plus, I need to dumb it down to a few basic questions for those who have experience.
1. Are front sway bars enough to improve upon the understeer?
2. Are front and rear sway bars required to improve upon roll?
3. How significant is the improvement understeer and roll after installation of front/rear sway bars? I realize this is probably very subjective, however, some subjective topics are clearly and routinely praised. I just do not have a sense of how significant a difference the sway bars make?
4. Finally, is there consensus as to which aftermarket sway bars represent the best bang for the buck?
I personally find the understeer of my Macan more ‘troubling’ than the roll. Again, I am not trying to turn my Macan into my GT4, just a few tweaks I am considering that would provide a little more driving enjoyment toward my daily driving interests.
Thank you
AVM
1. Are front sway bars enough to improve upon the understeer?
2. Are front and rear sway bars required to improve upon roll?
3. How significant is the improvement understeer and roll after installation of front/rear sway bars? I realize this is probably very subjective, however, some subjective topics are clearly and routinely praised. I just do not have a sense of how significant a difference the sway bars make?
4. Finally, is there consensus as to which aftermarket sway bars represent the best bang for the buck?
I personally find the understeer of my Macan more ‘troubling’ than the roll. Again, I am not trying to turn my Macan into my GT4, just a few tweaks I am considering that would provide a little more driving enjoyment toward my daily driving interests.
Thank you
AVM
Adding only a front bar will increase understeer.
Adding only a back bar will decrease understeer, by adding some oversteer bias.
I highly recommend front and rear bar upgrades. It will keep the overall behavior more balanced, but significantly reduce body-roll, which will result with an overall higher cornering grip limit (more body-roll translates to more positive camber change, which reduces tire grip). Also, the transient response to quick steering inputs is significantly improved. Honestly, many enthusiasts act so handling-performance-oriented, but in reality, very few upgrade the sway bars, rather talk endlessly how lowering the car by 15mm is a such a significant handling improvement......air suspension is so much better....wheel spacers to change the "stance".....
I have upgraded front and rear bars on many of my vehicles, and have always felt it was a significant improvement in cornering ability/feel/enjoyment. The upgraded bars on my Macan are the #1 grin inducing mod I have made, followed closely behind by my engine tuning mod (Burger Motorsports JB1 piggyback).
For the Macan, my opinion, the solid H&R bars are the only viable upgrade. The hollow Eurocode Tuning bars won't give you much roll-reduction over the Porsche factory bars, as they are not much bigger in diameter compared to the hollow factory bars. The H&R bars are more expensive, but they are of significantly higher quality than the Eurocode bars, as far as paint durability (rust) and the Eurocode bars can fracture due to stress risers where they weld on the bushing retaining rings. That's why the H&R bars don't have welded-on retaining rings, they are held with a set-screw.
Adding only a back bar will decrease understeer, by adding some oversteer bias.
I highly recommend front and rear bar upgrades. It will keep the overall behavior more balanced, but significantly reduce body-roll, which will result with an overall higher cornering grip limit (more body-roll translates to more positive camber change, which reduces tire grip). Also, the transient response to quick steering inputs is significantly improved. Honestly, many enthusiasts act so handling-performance-oriented, but in reality, very few upgrade the sway bars, rather talk endlessly how lowering the car by 15mm is a such a significant handling improvement......air suspension is so much better....wheel spacers to change the "stance".....
I have upgraded front and rear bars on many of my vehicles, and have always felt it was a significant improvement in cornering ability/feel/enjoyment. The upgraded bars on my Macan are the #1 grin inducing mod I have made, followed closely behind by my engine tuning mod (Burger Motorsports JB1 piggyback).
For the Macan, my opinion, the solid H&R bars are the only viable upgrade. The hollow Eurocode Tuning bars won't give you much roll-reduction over the Porsche factory bars, as they are not much bigger in diameter compared to the hollow factory bars. The H&R bars are more expensive, but they are of significantly higher quality than the Eurocode bars, as far as paint durability (rust) and the Eurocode bars can fracture due to stress risers where they weld on the bushing retaining rings. That's why the H&R bars don't have welded-on retaining rings, they are held with a set-screw.
Wow! Great response. Appreciated.Adding only a front bar will increase understeer.
Adding only a back bar will decrease understeer, by adding some oversteer bias.
I highly recommend front and rear bar upgrades. It will keep the overall behavior more balanced, but significantly reduce body-roll, which will result with an overall higher cornering grip limit. Also, the transient response to quick steering inputs is significantly improved. Honestly, many of the forum enthusiasts act so handling-performance-oriented, but in reality, very few upgrade the sway bars, rather talk endlessly how lowering the car by 15mm is a significant handling improvement......air suspension is so great....wheel spacers to change the "stance".....
I have upgraded front and rear bars on many of my vehicles, and have always felt it was a significant improvement in cornering ability/feel/enjoyment. The upgraded bars on my Macan are the #1 grin inducing mod I have made, followed closely behind by my engine tuning mod (Burger Motorsports JB1 piggyback).
For the Macan, my opinion, the solid H&R bars are the only viable upgrade. The hollow Eurocode Tuning bars won't give you much roll-reduction over the Porsche factory bars, as they are not much bigger in diameter compared to the hollow factory bars. The H&R bars are more expensive, but they are of significantly higher quality than the Eurocode bars, as far as paint durability (rust) and the Eurocode bars can fracture due to stress risers where they weld on the bushing retaining rings. That's why the H&R bars don't have welded-on retaining rings, they are held with a set-screw.
So, I was not kidding when I stated I was in over my pay grade with this discussion . . . thinking the front sway bars would reduce understeer while, in fact, you educated me that it is rear sway bars that reduce understeer.
Anyway, pretty clear from your experience that front AND rear sway bars are proper modification . . . and that H&R is the way to go. Thank you again for that.
What am I reasonably looking at in terms of cost for part and labor for front/rear H&R sway bars?
Does swapping out sway bars require alignment as part of proper installment?
AVM
The H&R bars are about $700 for the pair.
Labor = ??...should take a shop 2 to 4 hours of labor.
No alignment is needed.
Labor = ??...should take a shop 2 to 4 hours of labor.
No alignment is needed.
Thank you againThe H&R bars are about $700 for the pair.
Labor = ??...should take a shop 2 to 4 hours of labor.
No alignment is needed.
AVM
I would factor around $800 for labor all in with supplies, tax etc..Thank you again
AVM
I was considering it but when I looked into the specifics that this sway bar set is not "made" for this car, most shops wouldn't want to deal with that conflict. Also the rear bar needs spacers/shims for the bushing and longer bolts/spacer for the endlinks. I don't have a relationship with a shop that I feel would follow those specifics or want to deal with that and my neurosis of wanting everything perfect, thus, its a better DIY for me although I would happily pay someone to do it.
The other member had a shop do it and they re-used the OEM bushings, which is the easier way and I may do that If I can't get the right fit with the H&R bushings.
I'll report back on the handling and I'll be doing the front and rear on separate days so I can comment on the front only improvements based on a couple drives.
Looking forward to the feedback . . . good luck with the projectsI would factor around $800 for labor all in with supplies, tax etc..
I was considering it but when I looked into the specifics that this sway bar set is not "made" for this car, most shops wouldn't want to deal with that conflict. Also the rear bar needs spacers/shims for the bushing and longer bolts/spacer for the endlinks. I don't have a relationship with a shop that I feel would follow those specifics or want to deal with that and my neurosis of wanting everything perfect, thus, its a better DIY for me although I would happily pay someone to do it.
The other member had a shop do it and they re-used the OEM bushings, which is the easier way and I may do that If I can't get the right fit with the H&R bushings.
I'll report back on the handling and I'll be doing the front and rear on separate days so I can comment on the front only improvements based on a couple drives.
On the spectrum of things, again, I am not looking to try and make my Macan handle like a sport car . . . but I think there is some room for improvement in the understeer and roll
I cannot even consider approaching this project on my own, so I have reached out to Jon at Flat6 for some further feedback. . . his shop has always provided me awesome service
AVM
Thanks and I absolutely want this car to handle like a sports car, I bought a Porsche and if it doesn't have the big engine, it will at least handle very well....at least that's my thought process. It's a very good handler so far and I think these bars will get me to my goals.Looking forward to the feedback . . . good luck with the projects
On the spectrum of things, again, I am not looking to try and make my Macan handle like a sport car . . . but I think there is some room for improvement in the understeer and roll
I cannot even consider approaching this project on my own, so I have reached out to Jon at Flat6 for some further feedback. . . his shop has always provided me awesome service
AVM
If you have access to a shop like Flat6, they should be able to help. The standard Euro service shops around me would be trickier as a first-timer.
I installed the front bar. It took me about 3 hours from start to finish, at relaxed pace, including clean-up and paint touchups on the bar. It was a fairly easy, clean job that I was able to do in the early morning before work, nothing backbreaking. I felt like more effort and time was spent jacking up and supporting the car and hubs to get the hubs at ride height for proper installation.
I noticed an immediate improvement in reduced body roll and more precision in turns and am now motivated to take on the rear for even more improvement.
No downsides so far other than a heavier bar but I can offset the weight elsewhere. No noise or reduced ride quality but to be fair, when I swapped out the OEM Goodyear tires for Michelin PS4 SUV, I felt more of the road so I am already used to a more performance-oriented ride.
The support setup:
![]()
New bar painted with gloss black engine enamel:
![]()
Installed:
![]()
I noticed an immediate improvement in reduced body roll and more precision in turns and am now motivated to take on the rear for even more improvement.
No downsides so far other than a heavier bar but I can offset the weight elsewhere. No noise or reduced ride quality but to be fair, when I swapped out the OEM Goodyear tires for Michelin PS4 SUV, I felt more of the road so I am already used to a more performance-oriented ride.
The support setup:
New bar painted with gloss black engine enamel:
Installed:
Looks good...just be carefull driving, with the stiffer front bar, and the factory original rear bar, the car will have less body-roll, but it will understeer more.
What year is your Macan, and what is the part number on the front factory bar?
What year is your Macan, and what is the part number on the front factory bar?
This continues to be a great thread . . . still working with Jon at Flat6 to see if the H&R sway bars will work with my 23' GTS. I have no reason to believe they will not but, unless I missed it, seems like those who replaced sway bars have done so on pre-22' and non-GTS models.
AVM
AVM
Yeah I may have noticed that a bit when I threw it into the first turn I could find. Flat, but more effort needed to get it to turn. Won't be driving much more until I install the rear on Memorial Day, hopefully before I start drinkingLooks good...just be carefull driving, with the stiffer front bar, and the factory original rear bar, the car will have less body-roll, but it will understeer more.
What year is your Macan, and what is the part number on the front factory bar?
Mines a 2021, I'll let you know the part# later today.
I am cross-referencing the part numbers on the 2023 and the only difference I see from the part numbers that VAGfan posted are the letter suffixes. To me that means they are all interchangeable in the chassis but somehow different, whether in core diameter or some other aspect.This continues to be a great thread . . . still working with Jon at Flat6 to see if the H&R sway bars will work with my 23' GTS. I have no reason to believe they will not but, unless I missed it, seems like those who replaced sway bars have done so on pre-22' and non-GTS models.
AVM
malahhaor has a 2017 GTS and was the other documented install on this thread.
I am using this site if you want to check it out:
IFInterface
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ifinterface.com
Thank you . . . I will send it along to Jon at Flat6I am cross-referencing the part numbers on the 2023 and the only difference I see from the part numbers that VAGfan posted are the letter suffixes. To me that means they are all interchangeable in the chassis but somehow different, whether in core diameter or some other aspect.
malahhaor has a 2017 GTS and was the other documented install on this thread.
I am using this site if you want to check it out:
IFInterface
Программа ETKA, Program ETKA, ETKA онлайн, ETKA-онлайн, этка онлайн, этка-онлайн, ETKA online, ETKA-online, VOLKSWAGEN, AUDI, SEAT, SKODA, PORSCHE, ETKA, ETKA7, ETKA7.4, ETKA7.5, ETKA7.0, ETKA 7, ETKA 7.4, ETKA 7.5, ETKA 7.3, ETKA 8.0, ETKA 8.2, ETKA 8.5, Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Porsche...ifinterface.com
AVM
All Macans (2015 to today) can interchange swaybars, the only differences across the years and trim levels (and air versus steel springs) are tweaks to the stiffness (diameter, wall thickness, bushing compliance). The suffix letter of the part number denotes those differences.
@VAGfanAll Macans (2015 to today) can interchange swaybars, the only differences across the years and trim levels (and air versus steel springs) are tweaks to the stiffness (diameter, wall thickness, bushing compliance). The suffix letter of the part number denotes those differences.
Do you know how all those parameters vary between the H&R sway bars you installed and the stock sway bars on my 23’ GTS?
I would hate to replace two sway bars with the same characteristics (e.g. stiffness)
AVM
I'll guess not likely but a good place to start would be to measure the diameter of your stock bars. They are most likely hollow (although as mentioned, wall thickness may vary) and with that assumption, a solid bar of equal or greater diameter would be stiffer.@VAGfan
Do you know how all those parameters vary between the H&R sway bars you installed and the stock sway bars on my 23’ GTS?
I would hate to replace two sway bars with the same characteristics (e.g. stiffness)
AVM
All the Macan factory bars are hollow. As said above, a solid bar of equal or greater diameter is stiffer. The H&R are solid bars, which are 32mm front, 26mm rear.
Measure the diameter of your factory bars.
Measure the diameter of your factory bars.
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