Porsche Macan Forum banner
61 - 80 of 81 Posts

· Registered
2022 Macan Gran Turismo Sport
Joined
·
817 Posts
I think that’s the 2021 S. The engine displacement is closer to 3 liter instead of 2.9L which it should be.

which makes believe the 2022 S/GTS engines are the same physically and that it’s just software that differentiates it. That makes sense as it streamlines the whole manufacturer parts lifecycle.
If you could provide some citations of your findings that would be great. Thinking is great but proof is better. What I posted does not tell me what you are saying at all. Sorry.
 

· Registered
2022 Macan Gran Turismo Sport
Joined
·
817 Posts
The GTS uses a 4 mm shorter stroke to lower the CR.
Wondering how they accomplish the 4mm

“To shorten the stroke of an existing engine, at a minimum you will need: 1) a new crank with a shorter throw. 2) new longer rods; or new pistons with a taller deck; or a block with a lower deck height; or some combination of these three.”
 

· Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
If you could provide some citations of your findings that would be great. Thinking is great but proof is better. What I posted does not tell me what you are saying at all. Sorry.
im Not sure if your link is authoritative either. Just looking quickly at the 2022 S specs vs the 2019 specs, they look very similar in terms of displacement and engine specs. The only thing being different is the horsepower and torque numbers. I’m thinking they just took the 2019-2021 S engine measurements accidentally.
Here’s the screenshots of the 2019 S, 2022 “S” and the 2022 GTS.

Font Parallel Circle Number Document

Font Parallel Circle Number Document

Font Material property Parallel Circle Number
 

· Registered
2022 Macan Gran Turismo Sport
Joined
·
817 Posts
im Not sure if your link is authoritative either. Just looking quickly at the 2022 S specs vs the 2019 specs, they look very similar in terms of displacement and engine specs. The only thing being different is the horsepower and torque numbers. I’m thinking they just took the 2019-2021 S engine measurements accidentally.
Here’s the screenshots of the 2019 S, 2022 “S” and the 2022 GTS.

View attachment 257731
View attachment 257730
View attachment 257729
There are other websites that show the same info: 2022 Porsche Macan GTS four-door wagon Specifications

You are missing that the stroke is different from S to GTS. Check out the Bore x Stroke section.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
There are other websites that show the same info: 2022 Porsche Macan GTS four-door wagon Specifications

You are missing that the stroke is different from S to GTS. Check out the Bore x Stroke section.
i am just using Occam’s razor.

the 2021 turbo and gts engines as far as I know are the same, just detuned.
The 2022 gts inherited the 2021 turbo engine and the 2022 S inherited the 2021 gts engine.
The 2021 S engine in the site you referenced shows that it has 3 liters of displacement which is correct.
The 2022 S on that same site shows it has the same displacement as the 2021 S down to the bore and stroke measurements , which is not correct. The 2022 S should have a 2.9 liter displacement. Therefore I’m deducing that the 2022 S measurements on that website are incorrect and that they mistakenly copied over the 2021 S engine displacement measurements.
This also makes sense from a practical level as why would Porsche want to have so many different components. More unnecessary overhead.
 

· Registered
2022 Macan Gran Turismo Sport
Joined
·
817 Posts
i am just using Occam’s razor.

the 2021 turbo and gts engines as far as I know are the same, just detuned.
The 2022 gts inherited the 2021 turbo engine and the 2022 S inherited the 2021 gts engine.
The 2021 S engine in the site you referenced shows that it has 3 liters of displacement which is correct.
The 2022 S on that same site shows it has the same displacement as the 2021 S down to the bore and stroke measurements , which is not correct. The 2022 S should have a 2.9 liter displacement. Therefore I’m deducing that the 2022 S measurements on that website are incorrect and that they mistakenly copied over the 2021 S engine displacement measurements.
This also makes sense from a practical level as why would Porsche want to have so many different components. More unnecessary overhead.
Yeah they use this method with the Audi S5 vs RS5.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
Yeah they use this method with the Audi S5 vs RS5.
The question has probably already been answered.
Yeah they use this method with the Audi S5 vs RS5.
here’s a reference from this thread when the 95.b2s came out.

the turbo and gts engines are the same compression. So I think it’s really the same assuming the 2022 gts inherits the old turbo engine and the 2022 S inherits the old gts engine.
Font Parallel Number Rectangle Document

Font Number Parallel
 

· Registered
2022 Macan Gran Turismo Sport
Joined
·
817 Posts
From their website they are the same engine now on the 22’s
The question has probably already been answered.

here’s a reference from this thread when the 95.b2s came out.

the turbo and gts engines are the same compression. So I think it’s really the same assuming the 2022 gts inherits the old turbo engine and the 2022 S inherits the old gts engine.
View attachment 257769
View attachment 257770
Yeah, they must have got rid of the other engine. Their technical specs show the same engine on the Porsche.com website.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
The question has probably already been answered.

here’s a reference from this thread when the 95.b2s came out.

the turbo and gts engines are the same compression. So I think it’s really the same assuming the 2022 gts inherits the old turbo engine and the 2022 S inherits the old gts engine.
View attachment 257769
View attachment 257770
I was having a similar discussion in another chat on S vs GTS. The engines should be the same.

What was interesting is just performance after tune.

COBB Stage 1 tune numbers on 2022 S and GTS


2022 Macan S

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +15.33% HP, +13.9% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 279.9 hp; Tuned 320.6 hp

Average TQ : Stock 347.76 ft-lb; Tuned 395.48 ft-lb

2022 Macan GTS

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +2.04% HP, +14.53% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 302.56 hp; Tuned 324.54 hp

Average TQ : Stock 371.93 ft-lb; Tuned 401.70 ft-lb

After tuning... they are pretty much the same numbers for both GTS and S - with the S seeing the main gain mainly due to being detuned.

Other considerations though is GTS suspension tuning is different.

But a ECU tune immediately levels the playing field in straight line performance.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter · #72 ·
I was having a similar discussion in another chat on S vs GTS. The engines should be the same.

What was interesting is just performance after tune.

COBB Stage 1 tune numbers on 2022 S and GTS


2022 Macan S

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +15.33% HP, +13.9% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 279.9 hp; Tuned 320.6 hp

Average TQ : Stock 347.76 ft-lb; Tuned 395.48 ft-lb

2022 Macan GTS

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +2.04% HP, +14.53% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 302.56 hp; Tuned 324.54 hp

Average TQ : Stock 371.93 ft-lb; Tuned 401.70 ft-lb

After tuning... they are pretty much the same numbers for both GTS and S - with the S seeing the main gain mainly due to being detuned.

Other considerations though is GTS suspension tuning is different.

But a ECU tune immediately levels the playing field in straight line performance.
It's good to have real world numbers although I am curious how accurate the comparison is? Were they tested on the same dyno, same setup? I feel like 5% difference in drivetrain loss using the same transmission seems significant.

S: 375HP -> 279.9WHP = ~25% drivegrain loss
GTS: 434Hp -> 302.56WHP = ~30% drivetrain loss
 

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
It's good to have real world numbers although I am curious how accurate the comparison is? Were they tested on the same dyno, same setup? I feel like 5% difference in drivetrain loss using the same transmission seems significant.

S: 375HP -> 279.9WHP = ~25% drivegrain loss
GTS: 434Hp -> 302.56WHP = ~30% drivetrain loss
Same dyno


Same dyno...

But Dyno isnt the most accurate - directionally you can make an assumption with a margin of error that they are the same.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Same dyno


Same dyno...

But Dyno isnt the most accurate - directionally you can make an assumption with a margin of error that they are the same.
I also wouldnt use porsches bhp numbers as gospel... assume different numbers than stated.

Best to do dyno multiple times on both to see.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
I also wouldnt use porsches bhp numbers as gospel... assume different numbers than stated.

Best to do dyno multiple times on both to see.
many cars have been understated by the manufacturer in the past so I can’t see why Porsche would not do the same. Especially to “sell” the GTS performance.
The Cobb looks mighty interesting. The torque gain across the midrange is the most tempting as that’s what will have the most impact on my “butt dyno”.
 

· Registered
2023 Macan GTS
Joined
·
15,251 Posts
Thats not what the dynos were saying though.

The GTS and S both become relatively equivalent after the tune.

Which makes sense since its same engine... both see increases but the S sees more as it is detuned.
Porsche real world test their cars. They do so in all climates and conditions before they conservatively release their numbers. That is a lot different than someone who Tess a Dyno in a lab that is selling a product.
 
61 - 80 of 81 Posts
Top