[embdenb]

I’ve seen 19 psi on my 22GTS. I was curious what method they are using to lower the compression on their engines from S to GTS.

You need a very small decrease in the piston crown or a slightly thicker head gasket.
My guess is a slightly thicker head gasket.

 

[lyricgskills]

I think that’s the 2021 S. The engine displacement is closer to 3 liter instead of 2.9L which it should be.

which makes believe the 2022 S/GTS engines are the same physically and that it’s just software that differentiates it. That makes sense as it streamlines the whole manufacturer parts lifecycle.

If you could provide some citations of your findings that would be great. Thinking is great but proof is better. What I posted does not tell me what you are saying at all. Sorry.

 

[mjc]

You need a very small decrease in the piston crown or a slightly thicker head gasket.
My guess is a slightly thicker head gasket.

The GTS uses a 4 mm shorter stroke to lower the CR.

 

[lyricgskills]

The GTS uses a 4 mm shorter stroke to lower the CR.

Wondering how they accomplish the 4mm

“To shorten the stroke of an existing engine, at a minimum you will need: 1) a new crank with a shorter throw. 2) new longer rods; or new pistons with a taller deck; or a block with a lower deck height; or some combination of these three.”

 

[ilumo]

If you could provide some citations of your findings that would be great. Thinking is great but proof is better. What I posted does not tell me what you are saying at all. Sorry.

im Not sure if your link is authoritative either. Just looking quickly at the 2022 S specs vs the 2019 specs, they look very similar in terms of displacement and engine specs. The only thing being different is the horsepower and torque numbers. I’m thinking they just took the 2019-2021 S engine measurements accidentally.
Here’s the screenshots of the 2019 S, 2022 “S” and the 2022 GTS.

 

[lyricgskills]

im Not sure if your link is authoritative either. Just looking quickly at the 2022 S specs vs the 2019 specs, they look very similar in terms of displacement and engine specs. The only thing being different is the horsepower and torque numbers. I’m thinking they just took the 2019-2021 S engine measurements accidentally.
Here’s the screenshots of the 2019 S, 2022 “S” and the 2022 GTS.

View attachment 257731
View attachment 257730
View attachment 257729

There are other websites that show the same info: 2022 Porsche Macan GTS four-door wagon Specifications

You are missing that the stroke is different from S to GTS. Check out the Bore x Stroke section.

 

[ilumo]

There are other websites that show the same info: 2022 Porsche Macan GTS four-door wagon Specifications

You are missing that the stroke is different from S to GTS. Check out the Bore x Stroke section.

i am just using Occam’s razor.

the 2021 turbo and gts engines as far as I know are the same, just detuned.
The 2022 gts inherited the 2021 turbo engine and the 2022 S inherited the 2021 gts engine.
The 2021 S engine in the site you referenced shows that it has 3 liters of displacement which is correct.
The 2022 S on that same site shows it has the same displacement as the 2021 S down to the bore and stroke measurements , which is not correct. The 2022 S should have a 2.9 liter displacement. Therefore I’m deducing that the 2022 S measurements on that website are incorrect and that they mistakenly copied over the 2021 S engine displacement measurements.
This also makes sense from a practical level as why would Porsche want to have so many different components. More unnecessary overhead.

 

[lyricgskills]

i am just using Occam’s razor.

the 2021 turbo and gts engines as far as I know are the same, just detuned.
The 2022 gts inherited the 2021 turbo engine and the 2022 S inherited the 2021 gts engine.
The 2021 S engine in the site you referenced shows that it has 3 liters of displacement which is correct.
The 2022 S on that same site shows it has the same displacement as the 2021 S down to the bore and stroke measurements , which is not correct. The 2022 S should have a 2.9 liter displacement. Therefore I’m deducing that the 2022 S measurements on that website are incorrect and that they mistakenly copied over the 2021 S engine displacement measurements.
This also makes sense from a practical level as why would Porsche want to have so many different components. More unnecessary overhead.

Yeah they use this method with the Audi S5 vs RS5.

 

[ilumo]

Yeah they use this method with the Audi S5 vs RS5.

The question has probably already been answered.

Yeah they use this method with the Audi S5 vs RS5.

here’s a reference from this thread when the 95.b2s came out.

Macan .2 GTS and Turbo Specs Comparison

Technical specs / data comparison between .2 GTS and Turbo. (Note: .2 denotes life cycle update on current Gen-I Macan) The table below listed the differences on specs without options. Other specs, such as Engine (2.9L V6), Power transmission (Drive system, Transmission, Gear ratios), Chassis...

www.macanforum.com

the turbo and gts engines are the same compression. So I think it’s really the same assuming the 2022 gts inherits the old turbo engine and the 2022 S inherits the old gts engine.

 

[lyricgskills]

From their website they are the same engine now on the 22’s

The question has probably already been answered.

here’s a reference from this thread when the 95.b2s came out.

Macan .2 GTS and Turbo Specs Comparison

Technical specs / data comparison between .2 GTS and Turbo. (Note: .2 denotes life cycle update on current Gen-I Macan) The table below listed the differences on specs without options. Other specs, such as Engine (2.9L V6), Power transmission (Drive system, Transmission, Gear ratios), Chassis...

www.macanforum.com

the turbo and gts engines are the same compression. So I think it’s really the same assuming the 2022 gts inherits the old turbo engine and the 2022 S inherits the old gts engine.
View attachment 257769
View attachment 257770

Yeah, they must have got rid of the other engine. Their technical specs show the same engine on the Porsche.com website.

 

[Hkayani]

The question has probably already been answered.

here’s a reference from this thread when the 95.b2s came out.

Macan .2 GTS and Turbo Specs Comparison

Technical specs / data comparison between .2 GTS and Turbo. (Note: .2 denotes life cycle update on current Gen-I Macan) The table below listed the differences on specs without options. Other specs, such as Engine (2.9L V6), Power transmission (Drive system, Transmission, Gear ratios), Chassis...

www.macanforum.com

the turbo and gts engines are the same compression. So I think it’s really the same assuming the 2022 gts inherits the old turbo engine and the 2022 S inherits the old gts engine.
View attachment 257769
View attachment 257770

I was having a similar discussion in another chat on S vs GTS. The engines should be the same.

What was interesting is just performance after tune.

COBB Stage 1 tune numbers on 2022 S and GTS


2022 Macan S

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +15.33% HP, +13.9% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 279.9 hp; Tuned 320.6 hp

Average TQ : Stock 347.76 ft-lb; Tuned 395.48 ft-lb

2022 Macan GTS

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +2.04% HP, +14.53% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 302.56 hp; Tuned 324.54 hp

Average TQ : Stock 371.93 ft-lb; Tuned 401.70 ft-lb

After tuning... they are pretty much the same numbers for both GTS and S - with the S seeing the main gain mainly due to being detuned.

Other considerations though is GTS suspension tuning is different.

But a ECU tune immediately levels the playing field in straight line performance.

 

[dougeefresh]

I was having a similar discussion in another chat on S vs GTS. The engines should be the same.

What was interesting is just performance after tune.

COBB Stage 1 tune numbers on 2022 S and GTS


2022 Macan S

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +15.33% HP, +13.9% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 279.9 hp; Tuned 320.6 hp

Average TQ : Stock 347.76 ft-lb; Tuned 395.48 ft-lb

2022 Macan GTS

Stage 1 93 Peak Gains : +2.04% HP, +14.53% TQ

Average HP : Stock: 302.56 hp; Tuned 324.54 hp

Average TQ : Stock 371.93 ft-lb; Tuned 401.70 ft-lb

After tuning... they are pretty much the same numbers for both GTS and S - with the S seeing the main gain mainly due to being detuned.

Other considerations though is GTS suspension tuning is different.

But a ECU tune immediately levels the playing field in straight line performance.

It's good to have real world numbers although I am curious how accurate the comparison is? Were they tested on the same dyno, same setup? I feel like 5% difference in drivetrain loss using the same transmission seems significant.

S: 375HP -> 279.9WHP = ~25% drivegrain loss
GTS: 434Hp -> 302.56WHP = ~30% drivetrain loss

 

[Hkayani]

It's good to have real world numbers although I am curious how accurate the comparison is? Were they tested on the same dyno, same setup? I feel like 5% difference in drivetrain loss using the same transmission seems significant.

S: 375HP -> 279.9WHP = ~25% drivegrain loss
GTS: 434Hp -> 302.56WHP = ~30% drivetrain loss

Same dyno

2022 Macan S and GTS Tuning Support

We are excited to announce that our Accessport is now available for the 2022 (95B.3) Porsche Macan S and GTS! Increase power and torque output by up to 15% with a simple flash tune! No need to remove the vehicle’s ECU, simply connect the Accessport to the car’s OBDII port to perform the flash...

www.cobbtuning.com

Same dyno...

But Dyno isnt the most accurate - directionally you can make an assumption with a margin of error that they are the same.

 

[Hkayani]

Same dyno

2022 Macan S and GTS Tuning Support

We are excited to announce that our Accessport is now available for the 2022 (95B.3) Porsche Macan S and GTS! Increase power and torque output by up to 15% with a simple flash tune! No need to remove the vehicle’s ECU, simply connect the Accessport to the car’s OBDII port to perform the flash...

www.cobbtuning.com

Same dyno...

But Dyno isnt the most accurate - directionally you can make an assumption with a margin of error that they are the same.

I also wouldnt use porsches bhp numbers as gospel... assume different numbers than stated.

Best to do dyno multiple times on both to see.

 

[ilumo]

I also wouldnt use porsches bhp numbers as gospel... assume different numbers than stated.

Best to do dyno multiple times on both to see.

many cars have been understated by the manufacturer in the past so I can’t see why Porsche would not do the same. Especially to “sell” the GTS performance.
The Cobb looks mighty interesting. The torque gain across the midrange is the most tempting as that’s what will have the most impact on my “butt dyno”.

 

[yrralis1]

I also wouldnt use porsches bhp numbers as gospel... assume different numbers than stated.

Best to do dyno multiple times on both to see.

If you’re tuning an S you would be going after the GTS. If you tune the GTS you are going after the world 🤣

 

[Hkayani]

If you’re tuning an S you would be going after the GTS. If you tune the GTS you are going after the world 🤣

Thats not what the dynos were saying though.

The GTS and S both become relatively equivalent after the tune.

Which makes sense since its same engine... both see increases but the S sees more as it is detuned.

 

[lyricgskills]

GTS has the big brakes to stop the extra power, stiffer suspension, thicker sway bars, lots of stuff. This is a good read below, make sure to scroll to the bottom and continue reading the sections, it is multiple pages:

Powertrain and performance - The new Macan

media.porsche.com

 

[yrralis1]

Thats not what the dynos were saying though.

The GTS and S both become relatively equivalent after the tune.

Which makes sense since its same engine... both see increases but the S sees more as it is detuned.

Porsche real world test their cars. They do so in all climates and conditions before they conservatively release their numbers. That is a lot different than someone who Tess a Dyno in a lab that is selling a product.

 

[RickBullotta]

With the 2021's it's a different story - the GTS has the better stance and little stiffer default setup, but a lesser motor. The Cobb tune for 2021 GTS fixes that last issue. Seems kinda like the inverse with 2022/2023.