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Discussion Starter #1
I'm starting a new thread so this discussion doesn't get buried within the other.

My experience is that my Macan reached port in early April. So far, I've received estimates of April 19, May 24 and July 5. Some have apparently been told August 15. These estimates are about six weeks apart, and probably represent the earliest dates, successively, for which the probability is above, I dunno, perhaps ten percent. If July 5 is missed, I would expect August 15 to become official, and so on until the EPA finally certifies.

As I explained last night to my SA, I have two complaints. The first is that Porsche has not produced responsible estimates. Insofar as estimates are uncertain, the proper technique must include a range. Thus, in my case, I should have been told something like "June 1 +/- six weeks." Then I could have decided whether I wanted to go ahead with my order, and planned accordingly. I also pointed out that the cause of the delay has no relevance: it is Porsche's responsibility to consider all factors when it produces an estimate on which others rely.

My second complaint was that I will no longer be getting the vehicle for which I will pay. I am losing months of use on the front end that I won't gain back on the far end. I'm taking a risk driving a late model BMW that is now out of warranty, because I can't sell it. I've floated a free loan to the dealership in the form of a deposit. I'm spending time writing posts like this. And, worst of all, my Macan will sit unused for months.

Yes, Porsche can and should do something to make amends, and I, too, have thought of an extension of the scheduled maintenance period, available at any dealership. (BMW has four years as standard.) The cost to Porsche would be nothing like the retail value of service. If not this, then something else. Otherwise, those in my position will be expected to bear all of the burden for a situation we did nothing to create.

I told my SA that the Internet is a megaphone, and I'm prepared to use it. I would be a very small gnat in a very large universe, but still a measurable one. Surely, there is someone on the business side at Porsche who understands numbers. It would help greatly if I were not the only gnat.
 

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I'm starting a new thread so this discussion doesn't get buried within the other.

My experience is that my Macan reached port in early April. So far, I've received estimates of April 19, May 24 and July 5. Some have apparently been told August 15. These estimates are about six weeks apart, and probably represent the earliest dates, successively, for which the probability is above, I dunno, perhaps ten percent. If July 5 is missed, I would expect August 15 to become official, and so on until the EPA finally certifies.

As I explained last night to my SA, I have two complaints. The first is that Porsche has not produced responsible estimates. Insofar as estimates are uncertain, the proper technique must include a range. Thus, in my case, I should have been told something like "June 1 +/- six weeks." Then I could have decided whether I wanted to go ahead with my order, and planned accordingly. I also pointed out that the cause of the delay has no relevance: it is Porsche's responsibility to consider all factors when it produces an estimate on which others rely.
You will probably find little sympathy from anyone. I know thats hard to hear but its not PCNA's problem. I've been told its the EPA. This has been explained before in another thread. Part of it was the Gov shutdown, "maybe" part because of the diesel scandal? It happens all the time. It happened to the Cayennes. Its not the first time nor will it be the last time. You are not the first and won't be the last. And its not Porsche's fault unless you can explicitly point where PCNA is doing something to intentionally screw anyone over.

My second complaint was that I will no longer be getting the vehicle for which I will pay. I am losing months of use on the front end that I won't gain back on the far end. I'm taking a risk driving a late model BMW that is now out of warranty, because I can't sell it. I've floated a free loan to the dealership in the form of a deposit. I'm spending time writing posts like this. And, worst of all, my Macan will sit unused for months.
Stuff happens. It happens all the time. The Free loan is the cost of doing business within the business model. Don't like it? Buy another car somewhere else. No one forced you to buy this vehicle. But amazingly, they sell many. People willingly give up their money and wait. The BMW risk is your risk. You chose the time to buy, not PCNA. That's your fault. This is nothing compared to the past. How about ordering the car exactly as wanted, get the build date, waiting, then being told "so sorry" you can't have that color, that option, etc. Its happened thousands of times to thousands of people. You are not the first. How about all the Cayenne owners that expected delivery and didn't get it when promised?

Yes, Porsche can and should do something to make amends
Good luck with that. Now imagine the salespeople trying to make a living with nothing to sell. Look at it from their POV. This complaint was made in the EU forums, nothing to sell. Emission testing holding up Macan sales - See Rennteam.

those in my position will be expected to bear all of the burden for a situation we did nothing to create.
I ordered a custom Macan, waited, and was told forget about all the stuff "they" agreed too. Take what you get or wait another 6 months while they got their act together. Did I have to bear the burden for the situation I did nothing to create? Of course I did. Get what you get or wait. Don't like it? Walk.

I understand its frustrating. I can empathize having been told similar things. But don't hold your breath to long. Many people don't understand that PAG is a tiny company building a niche number of cars. Look at the thread on waiting for a part. Do you think its going to get better? I refer people to the TTAC article written back at launch. You should read it. If you were expecting Acura service :laugh: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/11/avoidable-contact-cayenne-wont-help-ya-cayenne-wont-do-you-no-good/ Read it again and again. Porsche is not Toyota. Now compound the issue with Dieselgate.

Who knows what's going on. Relax. One day you will get a fine CUV and be happy. :) Don't let the stress get to you. Be glad your not Nick Murray. Imagine dropping maybe $260K on 911s only to have PCNA buy back two lemons :eek: Your situation is nothing in comparison. I know its frustrating but many are in the same boat. They have in the past and they will continue to be in the future. Read the TTAC article. It might help you out. But try not to get stressed out because its not worth the stress. The EPA will move at a pace the EPA moves.

Expecting free service? You might want to look at it this way. You go to McDonalds. No hamburgers today, only chicken. You get mad. Maybe tomorrow. Waiting for the meet suppliers. Depends upon when the USDA gets around to inspecting the last batch of cows. Now you expect your local McD to compensate you with "free stuff" over something they have no control over? I'd like to see that happen. I'd be mad at VAG executives who defrauded the US.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
its not PCNA's problem. I've been told its the EPA...Part of it was the Gov shutdown, "maybe" part because of the diesel scandal? It happens all the time.
Thank you for making my point, even if you drew the wrong conclusion. I have no independent experience with EPA emissions testing, but PCNA has lots of it. They knew what I did not know, namely, that if a vehicle has not already been approved, it may well be months before it is. They knew that April 19 was a best case scenario, but produced that date as fact. No, they are not responsible for the delays, but, yes, they are responsible for the information they provide. Everything, including the probability of pirates hijacking the damned container ship, are the part of the calculus of PCNA running a business. If an EPA delay "happens all the time," how could it not be PCNA's job to let their customers know this?
 

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Thank you for making my point, even if you drew the wrong conclusion. I have no independent experience with EPA emissions testing, but PCNA has lots of it. They knew what I did not know, namely, that if a vehicle has not already been approved, it may well be months before it is. They knew that April 19 was a best case scenario, but produced that date as fact. No, they are not responsible for the delays, but, yes, they are responsible for the information they provide. Everything, including the probability of pirates hijacking the damned container ship, are the part of the calculus of PCNA running a business. If an EPA delay "happens all the time," how could it not be PCNA's job to let their customers know this?
In Feb, I was told the expected deliveries was first May, then Nov, 2019 but could be pushed into next year, yes, 2020. Now it appears to be back to late May, or whatever else.

It sounds like I am defending PCNA but not really. They pass onto dealerships what they are told. They have zero control over what the gov decides. The dealer "should" be providing you with the date as they get them. They "should" be telling you what to expect. So I was told "expect" Nov, but don't hold your breath, it could be 2020. Now it this May, now changing again. And this is after the Cayenne changes.

It seems to me that the EPA is going whatever the EPA is doing. I "suspect" its tied to diesel gate but have no proof. I would not get to excited about it one way or the other. It is what it is and no amount of stressing over it will change a thing. I'm trying to help you understand this. You sound like you are coming from BMW. BMW buyers like to tout their "free maintenance". You must know nothing is free. You PAID for that maintenance as a sunk cost when buying the car. If you sell the car before the time period is up, YOU, the buyer lost that money. Porsche model is the opposite. The bespoke pricing strategy is you pay for everything. Don't like it? Don't buy the option, including maintenance. If you buy the Porsche prepaid maintenance, PCNA is likely reimbursing the dealer like warranty work. But its not PAG, PCNA, or the dealers fault. I have to believe they are passing on info in good faith as to what they know. No one is trying to screw you over.

Stuff happens. I would expect its doubtful they will reimburse anyone for anything. No one forced you to put down a deposit. No one forced you to buy anything. Its all your choice.

Look at the 991.1 GT3 fires. Cars were delivered. People drove a bit. They were making payments and then .... poof, recall all the cars. In that case, buyers WERE compensated. AFAIK, those making payments were made up for the payments. And then got new cars. But these were SOLD cars, not cars not yet sold.
 

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All PCNA ever gives the dealerships are estimates. They never guarantee dates or even the final price until delivery. There is nothing signed to that matter. If your dealer didn't explain this then it's unfortunate and maybe they'll give you some free stuff or an extra key chain, but PCNA is not going to do anything other then the usual pen and book gift some weeks after delivery. Anything else I'd be very surprised.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Stuff happens.
With all do respect, grim, i started this thread to dialog with others who understand that, in fact, nothing ever just "happens" and are being affected by this delay. Your point is that we live in an uncertain world and should just chill out about it. Point made. No need to repeat it, right?
 

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All PCNA ever gives the dealerships are estimates. They never guarantee dates or even the final price until delivery. There is nothing signed to that matter. If your dealer didn't explain this then it's unfortunate and maybe they'll give you some free stuff or an extra key chain, but PCNA is not going to do anything other then the usual pen and book gift some weeks after delivery. Anything else I'd be very surprised.
My dock-sitting Macan will be my first Porsche, so had no idea I get a pen and book gift set! Very nice. Lexus gave me zip same as BMW. :)

My contact at the Delivery Center at Atlanta PEC has been very forthcoming, once I wrote to him about the delay. He also sounded pretty upset about the delay and even (I surmise) surprised at the ever extended EPA approval date.

At some point it would be very interesting to learn more about this EPA inspection and the reason(s) for the delay. I hope some member of the forum can access that information.
 

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If you want the car wait, if not move on. It is really that simple. My 2018 Turbo PP sat at the port for 3 months from July 2017 to October waiting for the CARB certification. Totally messed up my 50th birthday present delivery in July. EPA and CARB agencies work at their own pace and Porsche or other makers have no bearing on it. I kept in contact with my SA periodically but I was not overly consumed with the delivery date because life goes on and not worth my energy getting pissed. Especially with government bureaucracy! This had happened with my past Mercedes orders so I wasn’t surprised.

The car came eventually, Porsche gave me 2 additional years of free maintenance, LOVE the Macan’s red interior at first sight and about the delay, WHAT delay!!!! LOL

John
 

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You’re dealing with a big government bureaucracy. I’ll offer an estimate with 99% confidence: 15 July +/- 2 months. That’s fast and precise compared to folks waiting on EPA permits for construction projects with far greater cost impact.

PCNA didn’t cause the delay, has no way to expedite things, and no way to know with any confidence how long it will take. It’s really no different than a port strike!
 

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If you want the car wait, if not move on. It is really that simple. My 2018 Turbo PP sat at the port for 3 months from July 2017 to October waiting for the CARB certification. Totally messed up my 50th birthday present delivery in July. EPA and CARB agencies work at their own pace and Porsche or other makers have no bearing on it. I kept in contact with my SA periodically but I was not overly consumed with the delivery date because life goes on and not worth my energy getting pissed. Especially with government bureaucracy! This had happened with my past Mercedes orders so I wasn’t surprised.

The car came eventually, Porsche gave me 2 additional years of free maintenance, LOVE the Macan’s red interior at first sight and about the delay, WHAT delay!!!! LOL

John
Did you ask for 2 years of free maintenance or Porsche dealership just gave it to you as a compensation? Could you share the experience so we could somehow get some benefits from the wait?
 

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I didn’t ask PCNA for anything because I didn’t think it was their fault. The car arrived at the port as expected but it was the government agencies that caused the delay. I doubt EPA and CARB will compensate me LOL! Each month PCNA sent me a letter to apologize and offered 1 year free maintenance. I received 2 letters hence the 2 years free maintenance.

It is only a minor delay for car so honestly I don’t get my panties in a twist. Now if I am waiting for a kidney or heart transplant that is a different story.....

John
 

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I'm starting a new thread so this discussion doesn't get buried within the other.

My experience is that my Macan reached port in early April. So far, I've received estimates of April 19, May 24 and July 5. Some have apparently been told August 15. These estimates are about six weeks apart, and probably represent the earliest dates, successively, for which the probability is above, I dunno, perhaps ten percent. If July 5 is missed, I would expect August 15 to become official, and so on until the EPA finally certifies.

As I explained last night to my SA, I have two complaints. The first is that Porsche has not produced responsible estimates. Insofar as estimates are uncertain, the proper technique must include a range. Thus, in my case, I should have been told something like "June 1 +/- six weeks." Then I could have decided whether I wanted to go ahead with my order, and planned accordingly. I also pointed out that the cause of the delay has no relevance: it is Porsche's responsibility to consider all factors when it produces an estimate on which others rely.

My second complaint was that I will no longer be getting the vehicle for which I will pay. I am losing months of use on the front end that I won't gain back on the far end. I'm taking a risk driving a late model BMW that is now out of warranty, because I can't sell it. I've floated a free loan to the dealership in the form of a deposit. I'm spending time writing posts like this. And, worst of all, my Macan will sit unused for months.

Yes, Porsche can and should do something to make amends, and I, too, have thought of an extension of the scheduled maintenance period, available at any dealership. (BMW has four years as standard.) The cost to Porsche would be nothing like the retail value of service. If not this, then something else. Otherwise, those in my position will be expected to bear all of the burden for a situation we did nothing to create.

I told my SA that the Internet is a megaphone, and I'm prepared to use it. I would be a very small gnat in a very large universe, but still a measurable one. Surely, there is someone on the business side at Porsche who understands numbers. It would help greatly if I were not the only gnat.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. I’m in the exact same boat. My Macan has been sitting in port since March, and the delivery date has moved from April to May 24 and now July 5. I agree with you that it’s likely gonna delay even further into August or even later. It’s extremely frustrating. I appreciate you creating this post so at least I know I’m not alone.
 

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If you want the car wait, if not move on. It is really that simple. My 2018 Turbo PP sat at the port for 3 months from July 2017 to October waiting for the CARB certification. Totally messed up my 50th birthday present delivery in July. EPA and CARB agencies work at their own pace and Porsche or other makers have no bearing on it. I kept in contact with my SA periodically but I was not overly consumed with the delivery date because life goes on and not worth my energy getting pissed. Especially with government bureaucracy! This had happened with my past Mercedes orders so I wasn’t surprised.

The car came eventually, Porsche gave me 2 additional years of free maintenance, LOVE the Macan’s red interior at first sight and about the delay, WHAT delay!!!! LOL

John
I like the way you think.

I’m excited . . . But, it’s a car and no one has done anything with malice. Deposits, in most cases, are fully refundable. My sense is that the only part of this Porsche has any control is conveying information as they get it.

I’d like to know the PEC dates . . . For planning. But, beyond that it’ll get there when it gets there.
 

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In Canada too...

Just received a message from my SA stating July, maybe August...
The USA's EPA shutdown a few months ago doesn't explain why the engine is still not certified in Canada. Someone is aware of some technical problem explaining why it is delayded in USA and Canada ?
 

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Not to rub it in, but this is why I bought a 2018 knowing the 2019s were around the corner.
 

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I'm starting a new thread so this discussion doesn't get buried within the other.

My experience is that my Macan reached port in early April. So far, I've received estimates of April 19, May 24 and July 5. Some have apparently been told August 15. These estimates are about six weeks apart, and probably represent the earliest dates, successively, for which the probability is above, I dunno, perhaps ten percent. If July 5 is missed, I would expect August 15 to become official, and so on until the EPA finally certifies.

I am losing months of use on the front end that I won't gain back on the far end.

I'm in the same boat that you're in (Macan arrived a month ago at US port), and have heard the same things. It's frustrating. My dealership contacts have been great in keeping me updated. They are frustrated to the max, because they can't sell these cars and are running of out 2018 Macans to sell. Hundreds of Macans have been sitting in US ports for weeks, as have Porsche E-Hybrids (2019 Panamera E-Hybrids just got cleared by CARB yesterday). I agree that Porsche (meaning Porsche HQ Germany) should be not letting these cars pile up at ports being exposed to salty air for many weeks or months; it only takes a week to manufacture these vehicles at most, and only 2-3 more weeks to get them to US ports, so they should be awaiting EPA certification at a minimum before sending hundreds of vehicles to sit idly.


Indeed, what happens when these cars sit in salty air for 2-3 months without moving? Tire rubber molds into flat spots, engine lubricants just sit, paint and other car parts probably age a couple of years in the salty air (compared to sitting in an owner's garage most of the time), etc. This probably bothers me the most... But I'm also upset with how our federal government operates.
 

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To allay your fears, except for the wait it's worth it. My '17 S sat from February to April in 2016. When I picked it up it was showroom perfect condition. No sign of sitting around for almost 2 months in Davisville. That problem I think was more the fact it was a 2017 needing approvals in early 2016. Now I'm getting a 2019 S in 2019. Hopefully the wait wont be as long.
 

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I had to speak with Service At Rusnack Porsche in Pasadena about something and then spoke with sales for fun. The GM stated that hundreds of their ordered cars have been sitting in SD port for months and they aren’t expecting release untill July. The earliest. As for the eventual 2020’s? December. Maybe next year. Total Cluster
 
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