Will EV be a short lived phenomenon ? - Porsche Macan Forum
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post #1 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 03:35 AM Thread Starter
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Default Will EV be a short lived phenomenon ?

Been thinking .....

It seems like Porsche is doing everything possible to balance the scale of the legislature and the reality . Obviously the legislature focus is emissions . The reality is they will NEVER be able to get the life out of those batteries to compete at the level of an ICE car . Porsche is all about competition . However in the wake of the VW scandal the reality is they have no choice.

Or do they ? Can they develop an alternative fuel capable of laying the EV zealotry to rest . If so .. when ?

They are surely going in the EV mode for now . Macan will likely be EV . 718 will too . Sure they might sprinkle a Gt4 in but they will not be the mass buyers . In fact who will be the mass buyers ? I can't fathom who wants an electric mid engine roadster . Even a vibrating pillow sounds more exciting.

Now I do think that EV self driving taxi cars might be a possibility for transit. I even think this might be short term . After all no place is going to built up a huge infrastructure and not use it for something . But the enthusiasts ? Most don't want an appliance car .


Maybe I am alone on this thinking .. EV .. permanent or short lived ? That's the topic .
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post #2 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 04:17 AM
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Governments have forced EV car production on the manufacturers through regulations and the manufacturers are trying to persuade the consumer to buy them. The consumer still has the choice to buy or not to buy as long as ICE cars are still available. As long as ICE cars are still available (permitted) the EV car could be one of the worst economic losses ever for car manufacturers. Convincing the consumer to buy it in numbers to replace the sales of ICE vehicles will take a huge marketing effort. My fear is that the consumer will eventually not have a choice.

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post #3 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 06:37 AM
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Of course it will be long-lived. Governments and supranational institutions such as the EU do not regulate with us car enthusiasts’ preferences in mind, and after all the enormous investments that car makers are making on electrification, they too will push to complete the transition to electric mobility.

In the meantime I’ll fully enjoy my Macan GTS and 991.2 GTS.
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post #4 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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Of course it will be long-lived. Governments and supranational institutions such as the EU do not regulate with us car enthusiastsí preferences in mind, and after all the enormous investments that car makers are making on electrification, they too will push to complete the transition to electric mobility.

In the meantime Iíll fully enjoy my Macan GTS and 991.2 GTS.
They will go through with it. and the mass will buy into but when it sinks it can fall faster than diesel (the last sh*t sandwich that failed).

The sinking feature wont be either the government or the enthusiast . I believe it will be the product itself . They just can't get the batteries to work the way they would want . The moment a flex fuel is developed which can meet the standards and cost less than the upkeep of EV even the govt. might reexamine things.

By "short lived" I did not mean immediate . But it can't last long term.
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post #5 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:11 AM
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My son, who currently drives a nice C Class with some AMG accoutrements said he’d go EV when they have a thousand mile range.

I commute to the railroad station about 150 days a year, 8 miles each way. That type commute is perfect for an EV and even I, who loves ICE exhaust sound, have considered perhaps the Bolt. But at least once a week I usually find myself in Costco stocking up on toilet paper (well I am full of it), etc., and gas is so cheap there (2.69 regular, 2.89 premium, 93 octane, as of yesterday) that it doesn’t even hurt the wallet to fill my Raptor which is what I use for that short commute to the station.

EV is definitely here to stay. And unless and until you’ve driven one, don’t discount it. Basically zero service required. Fill the washer fluid and you’re done. And oodles of smooth torque. I’ve mentioned before, I drove my relative’s Tesla S. While I did not feel it to be 90k worth of quality, it was somewhat impressive.

There already are fleets of hydrogen powered buses, natural gas powered vehicles. Problem is the filling stations are so few and far between, whereas as an EV is powered right in your garage or supermarket parking lot.
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post #6 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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My son, who currently drives a nice C Class with some AMG accoutrements said heíd go EV when they have a thousand mile range.

I commute to the railroad station about 150 days a year, 8 miles each way. That type commute is perfect for an EV and even I, who loves ICE exhaust sound, have considered perhaps the Bolt. But at least once a week I usually find myself in Costco stocking up on toilet paper (well I am full of it), etc., and gas is so cheap there (2.69 regular, 2.89 premium, 93 octane, as of yesterday) that it doesnít even hurt the wallet to fill my Raptor which is what I use for that short commute to the station.

EV is definitely here to stay. And unless and until youíve driven one, donít discount it. Basically zero service required. Fill the washer fluid and youíre done. And oodles of smooth torque. Iíve mentioned before, I drove my relativeís Tesla S. While I did not feel it to be 90k worth of quality, it was somewhat impressive.

The Tesla S had more road noise than my Boxster had . It was heavy and cumbersome . Sure it was. a technological masterpiece in its time but at 90K its was not perfect and it should be .

In fact in the EV competition Porsches arrival might shake Tesla at the same price points . I haven't shorted Tesla but I speculate it will be the stock play that I miss .

And yes for short commutes or self driving taxis then EV might work except EVERY house will have to have a charger not just for one car but for ALL cars (If EV is the route) . All of a sudden this isn't so convenient .
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post #7 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:28 AM
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I can’t recall noticing road noise. But I assure you it was close to twice as quick as your Boxster and it hugged the road, felt very planted.

Forget self driving taxis. It will be a long time, if ever, before you see that. It’s not even in the equation. Are you getting in a car without a Taxi with no driver? I’m not and I take cabs all the time, and most of them are nuts behind the wheel. I immediately tell them slow down, I’m in no rush, and they do.

Motorweek recently did a roundup of EVs. There are at least a dozen out there. Tesla is and will remain niche, if that. I do not see them even surviving.
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post #8 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 08:48 AM
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post #9 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MDJAK View Post

My son, who currently drives a nice C Class with some AMG accoutrements said he’d go EV when they have a thousand mile range.
I know that is a "H...E..double hockey sticks" freezes over statement, but what ICE vehicle gets a thousand miles on a tank?

Speaking about choice...

My wife is thinking about trading in her Jaguar XE 35t next year, and she had her eyes on a Mercedes Benz GLC43 coupe, but I had recently read an article that Mercedes is dropping the GLC "43" variants in 2020...as a matter of fact, they're not even on the Mercedes production schedule for 2020. Rumor has it Mercedes MIGHT use their new 416 hp 4 cylinder engine featured in the new A Class 45s, and then call the GLC a "53" in 2021...who knows. So it looks like your choices for the GLC in 2020 is a 300, or a 63/63s...no 43. My wife doesn't want a gas guzzling V8, so scratch the Mercedes off her list in 2020.

Then she started looking at a Jaguar F-Pace S, only to read an article that Jaguar was thinking about dropping the supercharged 380 hp 3.0L V6 engine in the XE and F-Pace next year when the new face lifts of those vehicles come out as 2021 models, and going with a 296 hp 4 banger...or the V8 in the SVR F-Pace. My wife just doesn't want to spend close to $90k on a gas guzzling V8, and she doesn't want a 4 banger.

So who knows...maybe she'll end up buying a BMW X4 M40i since she's not interested in an EV Macan (she likes my GTS though), an Audi SQ5 because they don't offer a "coupe" version, or anything else like an Alfa or a Maserati. The BMW may not be her first choice, but she feels its better than owning a 4 banger.

In any case, it looks like there will be interesting times ahead for the automobile industry in the very near future...especially for the European models.

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post #10 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 11:08 AM
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Automakers make poor decisions all the time, they go in a direction driven by regulations and not the consumer/market.

Without getting too political, people buy high HP Sports cars and gas guzzling SUV's because they want them, the car makers make big profits off them.

EV is hardly popular or mainstream, I just purchased a gas guzzling 650HP Z06 Corvette, I voted with my wallet, and it makes little difference to me how much fuel costs, EV is not ever in my future, unless they force it down my throat with a funnel.

EV are 100% disposable vehicles with the absolute worst depreciation, battery tech is 20 years behind what we need and so is EV Charging, grids cannot keep up with normal demand on high usage days, so 50 million people charging an EV is going to work how ??

Add in the long charge times, people have little patience for that, and if Porsche goes all EV that is their bed, they can lie in it, sales will plummet and Porsche will go broke in short order and probably cease to exist as a company as it is now.

Consumers drive sales, not governments, if there are ICE Choices and people want them, brand or not they are going to another brand, its a foolish move IMHO.

Glad to see someone else thinks its stupid to go that route, pay the fine, don't do it again, and keep making progress on ICE Vehicles.

Hopefully someone in Porsche reads these threads and realizes how utterly asinine it is to go all EV when its not even mainstream yet !!
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