Quality of German Cars - Page 4 - Porsche Macan Forum
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post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 09:25 AM
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I think data shows that these days German brands and Porsche in particular are very reliable. This doesn't mean that you personally are going to have a trouble-free car. It's just statistically unlikely.

But let's assume that the Japanese brands are more reliable, for conversation's sake. I started my car ownership journey with Japanese cars (which I loved), I drove many, many cars in my life (over 100 models and nearly all brands). I'd rather have a premium German car than a premium anything car, simply because of how they drive and the design of the interior. And in my mind Porsche is the best German car brand, making the most interesting, beautiful and fun to drive cars. Hence the prestige and the prices.

They even do luxury well. Yes both Mercedes and BMW make better luxury cars to be driven in, compared to the Panamera, but if you do want a big luxury saloon to drive yourself, there's no comparison there.
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post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 09:39 AM
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Default Let's not forget how Porsche learnt precision manufacturing.

"Yet, almost 20 years ago, Porsche was on the verge of insolvency, plagued by high inventory levels and wasted factory space. In 1993, the German sports car maker reported a net loss of 122 million euros ($162 million) and sales of no more than 14,000 cars. It was at that point that a new Chief Executive Officer, Wendelin Wiedeking entered the picture. Stunned by rampant mass inefficiency, such as “Workers (that) used to spend half their time climbing up and down shelves looking for pieces”, Wiedeking turned to Toyota to learn the intricacies of the Japanese carmaker’s lean-production techniques. Indeed, the second sub-section of Cremer’s article is succinctly titled Taught by Toyota and informs us that, “Under Toyota’s guidance, Porsche took steps to fine-tune cooperation with suppliers to ensure factories received parts just when they were needed on the assembly line, a method that’s been widely copied in the automotive industry and that Porsche is now helping companies in other industries implement.”

Kaizen Factor | Porsche: Toyota?s star pupil?
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post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 09:50 AM
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The frequency of oil leaks in German cars doesn't speak well for their quality. The whole world seems to have solved this problem, except for the Germans. The only cars I've owned in the last 30 years that leaked oil were German brands.
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post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:17 AM
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I think different subjects here are being conflated. Maybe I can help, if I remember this all correctly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Toro View Post
"Yet, almost 20 years ago, Porsche was on the verge of insolvency, plagued by high inventory levels and wasted factory space.
Kaizen Factor | Porsche: Toyota?s star pupil?
This is a far more complex subject that a simple article, so a brief history. The biggest thing to remember is that Porsche was a tiny, tiny niche carmaker, a tiny blip. Their primary market was the US by far, and then Germany. By the last 1970s, they realized that rear engined cars were anarchisms and the 924 and 928 were the future. The 911 was to be discontinued. Didn't happen. A US CEO came in and turned the company around. Front engine cars dead and the 911 the only car left - the ONLY model. Weideking comes in, see the world is going SUV, and using the VW SUVs, starts building Cayennes and the 4 cyl front engine car replacement, the Boxster. Sales "explode", well at least as much as they can for a company selling under 100K cars. And indeed it is true, he brought the Japanese in to teach them how to expedite manufacturing, as in JIT inventory. That's all true. This is how they used to build 356s, everything by*hand. Remember, as a niche production company of what was, and is, considered supercars for regular people, there are MANY documentaries.


That article was written in 2010, just about the time, at least for a few minutes, Porsche AG became the richest company in the world. And then it all collapsed. Some history:

The Porsche Story: A Fierce Family Feud - SPIEGEL ONLINE
https://priceonomics.com/porsche-the...lso-made-cars/

Weidenkin was forced out and charged with Market Manipulation, then acquitted. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN0WK0XH But, you can thank him for your Macan. Without his foresight, you wouldn't have it. The Japanese certainly brought the original Porsche AG into modern manufacturing. But it probably would have happened anyway. Once the dust settled and VW AG owned the Porsche brand, VW AG would have done it anyway just as today they share engines and other parts between the Porsche and Audi brands. For example, the PDK in your Macan is not a ZF PDK used in the Sports Cars, but an Audi double clutch transmission that was modified.

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Assembly (physically putting stuff in place) may not be done by robots, but key bolted joints such as those holding crankshaft, rods, and heads will be torqued by a machine in groups to equalize clamping forces and control torque. Most important, every part will be machined, heat treated, coated, etc by computer controlled processes. Even steelmaking, casting, rolling, inspection is automated. No human judgement permitted.
Probably true for the Cayennes and Macans. I don't think thats all true for the 911. Here a a couple of assembly videos. They are clearly doing some engine assembly by hand. Workman are using screwdrivers and nut drivers by hand. Others are using power tools. Now some of those power tools can certainly have the torque setting preset. When I was researching tools I came across Wera, a German tool company. They sell all kinds of industrial hand torque tools with preset torques. I can see the use for them now. In fact, in one of the videos the screwdriver looks like a Wera too.

I see a LOT of hand fastening in here



Here was the 918 line. I think I read on RL someone picking up his car and it was about all hand assembled.


If you look for Macan engine assemble videos, I can't find any. They always show the production line which is mostly automated. Maybe because the engines are shared?


And a Toyota assembly line. It looks far more automated to me.

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post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
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If you look for Macan engine assemble videos, I can't find any. They always show the production line which is mostly automated. Maybe because the engines are shared?
The 2019 4 cyl and 6 cyl engines come from Audi, so that's who assembles them.
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post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KC$$$ View Post
I've been driving Infiniti's and Lexus' for years without 1 major issue, EVER (Lexus has 200k miles and is still running without issue, Infinti has 125k, not 1 issue, both in showroom running and looking condition), and my first Porsche just 1 week in, issues already. Hmmmm, was this a good decision???? Hmmmm, it does make you wonder.......

Traded a 2004 RX 330 with 190k miles. Very reliable car. Also drive a 2012 Infiniti QX56 that has been very costly with multiple system failures at relatively low miles just out of warranty. I would not buy another Infiniti given this experience.

About 12k miles on the Macan. A couple minor things: 1) throttle body came loose with WOT and Cobb. 2) moisture on LED headlight replaced under warrranty
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post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 04:34 PM
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I have my transferring case replaced TWICE under warranty. Should I be concerned? I was planning to keep the car for long term cuz I like this car. Now I am not sure. What is the cost to replace a transferring case when out of warranty? Any thoughts?
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post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 05:12 PM
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$3000-4000.

2015 Macan S | white | agate grey | 19" turbo wheels | summer tires | premium pkg | 18-way seats | PASM | LCA | ventilated seats | 3-zone | gloss black trim | smoking pkg | ACC+PAS | comfort lighting | ordered 12/15/2014, built 1/30/2015 & delivered 3/28/2015 | H&R lowering springs @1370 miles, 5/15/2015
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post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 11:23 AM
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Wow, it is not a small number. So, my transferring case got replaced twice in two years. Should I keep this car?
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post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Toro View Post
" Indeed, the second sub-section of Cremer’s article is succinctly titled Taught by Toyota and informs us that, “Under Toyota’s guidance, Porsche took steps to fine-tune cooperation with suppliers to ensure factories received parts just when they were needed on the assembly line, a method that’s been widely copied in the automotive industry and that Porsche is now helping companies in other industries implement.”

Kaizen Factor | Porsche: Toyota?s star pupil?
BTW, if you truly want to see how Porsche engines are built, the boxers, I can't find them on youtube but try to watch


SuperCars, SuperBuilds
Porsche 911
Season 2, Episode 6
(991.2 build)

It goes into great detail on the assembly line and the JIT. Only 1.5 days of inventory with 500+ suppliers. But more importantly, watch closely. The engines go on a cart, HAND PICKED, from the "supermarket", all parts scanned. They are then mostly HAND assembled using hand tools and power tools. I'm sure they the torques are preset. Watch the build each engine. 75 stations, 2.73 minutes per stations. German precision

When mating the parts, some robots are using, heavy machinery to move components around. Watch them use hammers, hand hammers on the body to get parts in. Interesting stuff. And they attribute the many variations of the 911, which today might be 24? 28? It changes all the time - to JIT inventory.
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