Discussion on the Macan Suspensions - Porsche Macan Forum
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post #1 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 03:56 AM Thread Starter
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Default Discussion on the Macan Suspensions

A little while ago I mentioned I was going out to Leipzig (which is where the Macan is made) to do a 2 day Porsche sport driving course and I would ask the instructors about their preferences....so for fear of opening up the endless debate about AS vs PASM, here goes....

The consensus seemed to be for just PASM and not AS. According to the instructors, the AS Macans are too snappy. The PAM car telegraphs the limit to the driver and let's you know when you are approaching it whereas the AS cars just tend to let go. To demonstrate the point, the Cayenne Turbo that they took each one of us in a Taxi ride around the circuit (which was absolutely hilarious) was just a PASM car. I asked why, and the answer was, you just can't throw an AS car around and make it drift as easily as a just PASM car.

Also, when you take a tour of the factory and see how big the AS suspension components are, and how much more they weigh, it's a lot more weight to carry around.

And BTW, the same applies to the 991 but in that case it's PDCC vs PASM. The preference was for just PASM cars because PDCC cars do not telegraph the limit as easily as just PASM cars.
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Last edited by grim; 05-01-2015 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Clarification of Thread Discussion
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post #2 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 04:14 AM
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Very interesting insights @macan1 - thanks!
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post #3 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 04:41 AM
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Default PASM vs AS

I believe @Macanuck or another member was alluding to this same point. For the track and taking the car to the limit just PASM is preferable. But in daily driving on the street people are not pushing the Macan this hard so the AS/PASM for ride comfort, lowering, etc., is the best option.


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post #4 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 06:13 AM
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I also appreciate this feedback! thank you.
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post #5 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 06:44 AM
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Default PASM vs AS

The way I read that is that the limits feel quicker and more noticeable with steel and PASM. Which is consistent with my experiences. As a road car that won't ever see its limits, I prefer how AS makes the limits feel more "infinite" (and it does by nature raise said limits as well; lower cog, stiffer spring rate and active ability to control load at each corner). When judging weight figures on tested cars on this forum a while back, they concluded that AS adds about 30 lbs. If true, not too bad, and very low so contributes to a lower cog. The weight of a Pano along with some loss of rigidity, at the top of the car, is much more dominant in this aspect.

When I asked the Porsche drivers at PWRS why AS was on all test cars, all 3 said that while it's not a "must", they said it essential to give the Macan its ultimate physics defying sharpness. I have a feeling a lot of this will be subject to different opinions (just as by regular consumers).

Nothing can fool personal feel, though. When I recently drove a PASM steel Macan, the extra body lean, higher cog and lack of relative sharpness when engaging in real world quick maneuvers was pretty apparent to me. More pitch, roll and dive. And the lower and tighter ride of AS really made turn in feel more direct and crisp. Whilst improving ride comfort sophistication at the same time.

Maybe if I tracked the car to need to feel the limits sooner before they come, I'd prefer a lowered steel PASM. But being that I want to car to feel as "limitless" as possible, I find what they seem to allude to as to why I feel AS feels so much sportier and more dynamic to me in real world driving conditions.

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post #6 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
When judging weight figures on tested cars on this forum a while back, they concluded that AS adds about 30 lbs. .

Dam depending on the time of the year my fat butt can add 30lbs to the weight of the car....I'm wondering how that will effect performance
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post #7 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
When judging weight figures on tested cars on this forum a while back, they concluded that AS adds about 30 lbs. If true, not too bad, and very low so contributes to a lower cog. The weight of a Pano along with some loss of rigidity, at the top of the car, is much more dominant in this aspect.
It has been my understanding that AS and Pano roof each add about an extra 100 pounds.
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post #8 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 07:32 AM
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Default PASM vs AS

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Originally Posted by keninblaine View Post
It has been my understanding that AS and Pano roof each add about an extra 100 pounds.

I don't think AS adds anywhere near 100 lbs. I'll try and weigh my car soon to see if I can dissect what it might contribute.

There was a pretty thorough "study" here a while back that went through specific builds in especially early Euro tests. They found cars that had nearly identical builds but different suspensions, and it seemed AS cars were about 30-40 lbs more. And don't forget that PASM likely contributes its own weight, whatever it may be.

The performance and comfort (and looks) benefits highly compensate for that anyway, imo. And the weight is at the ideal spot (no weight is ideal, but better as low and symmetrical as possible).

Pano will add at least 100 lbs. with all that glass, structural reinforcing, and mechanicals. And Porsche confirmed that it's slightly less rigid (they were actually showing off how it isn't "that much" less rigid). And the weight is at the worst possible place.

Whether or not one matters to an individual is another story, but that's just in keeping with what I know re: the conversation at hand.

And Trelleborg stated they went through extensive measures to make the AS light. Aluminum "springs" and a pretty simplified system (much different from the Cayenne system). Steel springs as huge as the Macan ones are very heavy on their own as well.

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post #9 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 08:30 AM
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I agree with @K-A . Having spent some time in the wheel wells of both my Macan and my wife's Q5 during my winter-summer changeover, I can report that subjectively, the AS unit is relatively light. It is all aluminium and is mostly hollow.



The Q5 steel springs are big and heavy. So I doubt they are that different in weight. It is the compressor and reservoirs that add the majority of the extra weight I suspect.

PASM shocks hardly add anything over normal shocks. They have just a few extra bits of valving compared to normal ones. They have the same diameter and mounting points.

AS certainly adds weight but I suspect 30 lbs is a reasonable quess. PASM cant add more than a pound or two.
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post #10 of 888 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macan1 View Post
A little while ago I mentioned I was going out to Leipzig (which is where the Macan is made) to do a 2 day Porsche sport driving course and I would ask the instructors about their preferences....so for fear of opening up the endless debate about AS vs PASM, here goes....

The consensus seemed to be for just PASM and not AS.
Your fear is well founded...

I've also attended a 2 day Porsche-Sport-Driving-School, but here in the USA. Instructors there also panned both AS and SC as being gimmicky and unneeded. The several 'cool' laps in a Macan, loaded with everything, (the way Porsche likes to sell them) including AS, at the Porsche World Road Show (PWRS) was inconclusive because it was so quick, maybe a minute or two at most. The two instructors both said they were equipped that way "because that's what Porsche (PCNA) gives us".

I listened closely, it matched my evaluations, and I believed them. Be happy with what you have!
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