The VW AG Scandal - Porsche Macan Forum
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post #1 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Default The VW AG Scandal

VW cheated on U.S. pollution tests for 'clean diesels' - LA Times

Since Porsche falls under the VAG umbrella and Volkswagen is potentially liable for up to $18 BILLION in fines, what happens to Porsche - or any of the other manufactures in the stable? Are they insulated? I hope so. I can't believe VW thought they would get away with this. Is the chance of a $37,500 fine PER VEHICLE really worth the risk? Looks like they may have to re-do that calculus.

I also wonder if the Porsche and Audi diesels are also affected by this. I hope not.

Update: The recall involves 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15.

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Last edited by grim; 11-05-2015 at 11:06 AM. Reason: update/ Change title to be more inclusive
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post #2 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 09:26 PM
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fire sale on all Porsche on dealers' inventories.

I guess I will camp out at a dealer who has a 911GT3RS in its showroom.

Sorry. I can dream, right ?

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post #3 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 12:07 AM
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Default Volkswagen accused of cheating on emission testing

"The Environmental Protection Agency accused the German automaker of using software to detect when the car is undergoing its periodic state emissions testing. Only during such tests are the cars’ full emissions control systems turned on. During normal driving situations, the controls are turned off, allowing the cars to spew as much as 40 times as much pollution as allowed under the Clean Air Act, the E.P.A. said."

They could be fined up to $18 billion plus face criminal charges. This could significantly affect VW's reputation and bottom line. I wonder how it will affect Porsche?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/bu...T.nav=top-news

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post #4 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 12:29 AM
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It's very unlikely VAG will have a $18B fine. The news always likes to state the highest fine, but it's rarely the highest possible fine. I'm also sure VAG has some sort of insurance that covers a portion of any fine or cost of repairs. Don't be surprised if there's a class action lawsuit from car owners. Even if VAG goes through bankruptcy, I'm sure Porsche, Audi, Lambo, Bentley won't be impacted due to a corporate structure that protects them.
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post #5 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 12:47 AM
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Seems to me that Porsche could be significantly affected by this since if the parent company (VW) has less capital to invest in its subsidiaries due to a bankruptcy, then Porsche has less $ to invest in design and manufacturing of new models.

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post #6 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 01:07 AM
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I'm sure Porsche will be affected, but I caution to say at a much lesser extent, each product line should be somewhat insulated from each other in this type situation. Of course there will be a "trickle down" effect no doubt. Hopefully it won't affect Porsche's R&D, etc....too much.
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post #7 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 01:15 AM
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It seems like corporate bankruptcy in the auto industry is merely a hiccup in the process . Look at GM arise from near shutdown and then to ignition problems post bailout to produce the C7 . In 08 Porsche dealerships did close and at least one declared bankruptcy but sales still thrived . Fiat almost hit bankruptcy too only to come back with a (horrible) little car . There was also the Audi 5000 debacle in the 90's where the press release on 60 minutes cut sales down tremendously . look at them now ! Thriving !!
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post #8 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Pokerhobo View Post
It's very unlikely VAG will have a $18B fine. The news always likes to state the highest fine, but it's rarely the highest possible fine. I'm also sure VAG has some sort of insurance that covers a portion of any fine or cost of repairs. Don't be surprised if there's a class action lawsuit from car owners. Even if VAG goes through bankruptcy, I'm sure Porsche, Audi, Lambo, Bentley won't be impacted due to a corporate structure that protects them.
Agreed. But consider that the enormous size and scope of VAG may render it well-able to withstand an $18B fine and residual lawsuits owing to the many safeguards in place, as mentioned. However, I believe their credibility will take an enormous hit because the crime was premeditated and intentional, defrauding the customers, the government, and the environment. And that hit could possibly bring down the company if they are perceived worldwide as untrustworthy. The punishment will be substantial and it should be! There is absolutely no legitimate excuse for this deception!

Although none of my vehicles would have been impacted, I feel personally "hurt" about this because I've owned several VW vehicles over the years and presumed they were a company of integrity!

Simply confidence-shaking and shameful!!


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post #9 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
Agreed. But consider that the enormous size and scope of VAG may render it well-able to withstand an $18B fine and residual lawsuits owing to the many safeguards in place, as mentioned. However, I believe their credibility will take an enormous hit because the crime was premeditated and intentional, defrauding the customers, the government, and the environment. And that hit could possibly bring down the company if they are perceived worldwide as untrustworthy. The punishment will be substantial and it should be! There is absolutely no legitimate excuse for this deception!

Although none of my vehicles would have been impacted, I feel personally "hurt" about this because I've owned several VW vehicles over the years and presumed they were a company of integrity!

Simply confidence-shaking and shameful!!

I agree with this in fairness principle but am not sure it will translate into reality. keep in mind that if an iconic auto manufacturer does shut down the effect is tremendous .
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post #10 of 975 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 01:52 AM
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I agree with this in fairness principle but am not sure it will translate into reality. keep in mind that if an iconic auto manufacturer does shut down the effect is tremendous .
Larry, I totally agree. I felt really bad when Saab shut down. But the problem I have with the VW scenario is not that they manufactured a bad or defective or unpopular car, but that they knowingly and secretly programmed it to skirt the law, and as a result the customers are affected now with poor resale values, and the environment is adversely affected as well. This is a deliberate crime! And the person who designed this program should be in jail... and have his Becks beer cut off!!


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