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post #841 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 08:31 PM
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This is not good. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ager.html?_r=0

A VAG executive has been arrested under 18 USC 371, conspiracy to defraud the US government. I don't know any other cases where criminal complaints have been filed for automotive issues. It might have been but I can't remember any, including the Ford Pinto cases where people died. They pay big civil fines but not Felony charges (assuming this is filed as a felony). And if its a conspiracy, doesn't it take two to conspire? More to come?
Why is he vacationing in Florida when he knows there is a risk of arrest? Did he think US judicial/criminal justice system is not that crazy or unreasonable to arrest a foreign executive waiting to board a plane? Glad it wasn't NYC, psychos would have put him on their time honored "perp walk" in prison garbs and shackles.

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post #842 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 06:34 PM
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I think you are right here. This is an example to show others and might get much worse. The complaints talks about three other laws: Defrauding the government, wire fraud, and the Clean Air Act. So far its only "Conspiracy".

It would seem that Conspiracy requires two people. I expect more arrest to come.

Second, in the WSJ article, they discuss the evidence and surely they have enough for the other three crimes.

It would seem this is not going to get better.
US DOJ to indict 6 more employees

US Justice Department will indict another six Volkswagen employees in diesel scandal - Autoblog

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post #843 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 07:02 PM
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Yes, getting worse https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volks...-penalties-six

VAG pleading guilt to three felony counts PLUS the 6 indictments

Volkswagen AG (VW) has agreed to plead guilty to three criminal felony counts and pay a $2.8 billion criminal penalty ... guilty to participating in a conspiracy to defraud the United States and VW’s U.S. customers and to violate the Clean Air Act by lying and misleading the EPA and U.S. customers about whether certain VW, Audi and Porsche branded diesel vehicles complied with U.S. emissions standards, using cheating software to circumvent the U.S. testing process and concealing material facts about its cheating from U.S. regulators. VW is also charged with obstruction of justice

This has to be historic with regards to the felonies.
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post #844 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 10:05 PM
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Volkswagen AG (VW) has agreed to plead guilty to three criminal felony counts and pay a $2.8 billion criminal penalty ... guilty to participating in a conspiracy to defraud the United States and VWs U.S. customers and to violate the Clean Air Act by lying and misleading the EPA and U.S. customers about whether certain VW, Audi and Porsche branded diesel vehicles complied with U.S. emissions standards, using cheating software to circumvent the U.S. testing process and concealing material facts about its cheating from U.S. regulators. VW is also charged with obstruction of justice

This has to be historic with regards to the felonies.
$2.8B +1.5B total fine. And that's just the US.

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post #845 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 11:36 PM
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Yikes!

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post #846 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 02:22 PM
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And it looks like VW isn't alone, just heard that FCA is in trouble for some diesel emissions problems too...
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post #847 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 03:58 PM
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I think its a money grab...........did cheating go on, yup..........looks like it.

But always follow the money..........they are going to "shake VW down" and shake them upside down until all the change and dollar bills fall out of their pockets.

If there was no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow it would not even make the news.

Just typical tactics from a Government 20 Trillion $$$$$ in debt.

Someone has to pay the tab.......now that they make an example of VW they scare the rest into paying up...........its almost MOB STYLE Tactics, break a knee cap and next week when you go to collect the "VIG" everyone is happy to pay up.

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post #848 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 05:05 PM
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I think its a money grab...........did cheating go on, yup..........looks like it.

But always follow the money..........they are going to "shake VW down" and shake them upside down until all the change and dollar bills fall out of their pockets.
??? So are you saying that if a company breaks the law, in both a civil and criminal way, the law doesn't apply to them and the should not be prosecuted?
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post #849 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 05:38 PM
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??? So are you saying that if a company breaks the law, in both a civil and criminal way, the law doesn't apply to them and the should not be prosecuted?
Since you asked me what I think its this ;

Every Single Day many law breakers go unpunished, I can think of a few recently, one ran for President and lost !!!

The reason that they are going down this path is because the whole world has bought into the Global Climate Change, ( IMHO a SCAM )

So they go after a deep pocketed corporation, while other companies fleece the US Government out of BILLIONS $$$$ by keeping money overseas and using obscure tax laws to evade, we just expect, at least I do for the Feds to go after the low hanging fruit.

If the climb is too high or not worth the trouble, they don't bother.

My glasses are NOT as blurred and ROSE COLORED as some, I see the global push for these laws as a ends to a means, in fact its a way to extract even more $$$$ from business and consumers.

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Three Facts Prove Climate Alarm Is a Scam

Lots and lots of people like me are proudly "Climate Deniers".

Its a scam if you ask me........but hey.......we can agree to disagree.


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post #850 of 881 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 05:49 PM
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Every Single Day many law breakers go unpunished

The reason that they are going down this path is because the whole world has bought into the Global Climate Change, ( IMHO a SCAM )

So they go after a deep pocketed corporation, while other companies fleece the US Government out of BILLIONS $$$$ by keeping money overseas and using obscure tax laws to evade, we just expect, at least I do for the Feds to go after the low hanging fruit.
OK, yes, people get away with things from jaywalking to whatever and the police have to decide to charge you. In a line of speeding cars, they can pull only you over and not everyone else. Their choice. This is true.

In this case, I don't think this has anything to do with "global warming". This has to do with admitting to defrauding the US government and the thousands of consumers who paid for something they didn't get. The charges are Conspiracy related to Defrauding the US government, Wire Fraud, and the Clean Air act. IMO, the Clean Air act is the excuse. Its the first two are the reasons the felonies were charged. In other words, they are going after them, setting an example, because they committed two alleged fraud, one against the US Government and one being Wire fraud. The clean air act is just the means, not the end.

I believe they did this to set an example, basically telling other car makers, don't mess with us. Or put another way, if the law they broke was not environmental but say "safety" and it had the same penalties, but involved Defrauding the US Government and Wire Fraud, they would have done the same thing and it has nothing to do with "emissions". Just my opinion. Why? See Takata https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c6525f78b3a0

More big fines. Nothing do with with "climate denial".
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