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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Default PCM SD Card limits?

Anyone have a good understanding of how many audio tracks the PCM will support across both SD cards?

The manual indicates 10,000 tracks on one media device, limited to 1000 in a given folder or playlist.

So much for putting 33k tracks onto a 128gb SD card. At some point the PCM just stops trying to show you tracks, even though you know there's files in a particular folder. It does seem to cut off at the same place every time, but I have no idea how to predict it. That is, on a 128gb card that has 33k+ tracks on it there's always a few folders I can go into that have no tracks listed, even though the files ARE present. And I can put those same folders onto another SD card (with less tracks on it, of course) and they do show up. So it's not some kind of strange filename characters kind of problem. It's all just plain ASCII lettering, nothing fancy.

I'm wondering if anyone's tried using an SD card with more than one disk partition on it. Might that work around the 10k limit? Can the PCM even see multiple partitions on the same SD card? Given how slooooowly SD cards tend to write it's tedious trying to mock-up an example without taking alllllll day.

I'm not 'set' on making this work but it'd be handy to just load up the whole media library and have it available.
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 08:12 PM
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Ran into the same wall. Split our library onto two SD cards for now. Still searching for another solution.
Wish my iPod Classic worked with PCM 4.

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 09:20 PM
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Ran into the same wall. Split our library onto two SD cards for now. Still searching for another solution.
Wish my iPod Classic worked with PCM 4.
I too wish iPod Classic worked with PCM 4. There are vendors at Ebay that sell iPod with huge upgrade drives, that would solve my issue of not having enough space.

My iPod is the Touch version, 64 GB. Yes, there is a 128 GB available from Apple but it's been over 500 days since a new model was released so I don't want to settle for 128 GB and then have Apple release one twice that capacity a month later.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 07:27 AM
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Anyone have a good understanding of how many audio tracks the PCM will support across both SD cards?

The manual indicates 10,000 tracks on one media device, limited to 1000 in a given folder or playlist.

So much for putting 33k tracks onto a 128gb SD card. At some point the PCM just stops trying to show you tracks, even though you know there's files in a particular folder. It does seem to cut off at the same place every time, but I have no idea how to predict it. That is, on a 128gb card that has 33k+ tracks on it there's always a few folders I can go into that have no tracks listed, even though the files ARE present. And I can put those same folders onto another SD card (with less tracks on it, of course) and they do show up. So it's not some kind of strange filename characters kind of problem. It's all just plain ASCII lettering, nothing fancy.

I'm wondering if anyone's tried using an SD card with more than one disk partition on it. Might that work around the 10k limit? Can the PCM even see multiple partitions on the same SD card? Given how slooooowly SD cards tend to write it's tedious trying to mock-up an example without taking alllllll day.

I'm not 'set' on making this work but it'd be handy to just load up the whole media library and have it available.
I had a similar problem in relation to "missing" tracks, where I knew I had a lot more tracks on the SD card than what was being loaded in the PCM.
It was because the files not being shown were MP4 files, and some others.
Make sure that the file extensions are either MP3 or WAV.
No idea on the track limit since I haven't reached it yet.

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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 07:29 AM
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Anyone have a good understanding of how many audio tracks the PCM will support across both SD cards?

The manual indicates 10,000 tracks on one media device, limited to 1000 in a given folder or playlist.

So much for putting 33k tracks onto a 128gb SD card. At some point the PCM just stops trying to show you tracks, even though you know there's files in a particular folder. It does seem to cut off at the same place every time, but I have no idea how to predict it. That is, on a 128gb card that has 33k+ tracks on it there's always a few folders I can go into that have no tracks listed, even though the files ARE present. And I can put those same folders onto another SD card (with less tracks on it, of course) and they do show up. So it's not some kind of strange filename characters kind of problem. It's all just plain ASCII lettering, nothing fancy.

I'm wondering if anyone's tried using an SD card with more than one disk partition on it. Might that work around the 10k limit? Can the PCM even see multiple partitions on the same SD card? Given how slooooowly SD cards tend to write it's tedious trying to mock-up an example without taking alllllll day.

I'm not 'set' on making this work but it'd be handy to just load up the whole media library and have it available.
I don't think there's a way around the 10,000 track limit per SD card. My Jeep Cherokee had this limitation as well. Never tried multiple partitions. . .
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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I had a similar problem in relation to "missing" tracks, where I knew I had a lot more tracks on the SD card than what was being loaded in the PCM.
It was because the files not being shown were MP4 files, and some others.
Make sure that the file extensions are either MP3 or WAV.
No idea on the track limit since I haven't reached it yet.
Mine were only mp3 files. At least the ones missing from a particular folder. I re-checked on a PC and the files were present.

I'm going to try partitions later today. First step will be to see if the PCM even recognizes there's more than one partition on the media. If that works then I'll try 10k on the first partition and see if any on the second appear.

The hard part is not knowing what order the PCM uses to load them. Presumably it's making some kind of choice regarding which ones to load and eventually cutting off when it reaches the limit. Without knowing the order it's sort of impossible to be able to determine what's missing. I only randomly happened to browse into a particular folder (on the 128gb card) and noticed tracks were missing. It wasn't near the start nor end of the list of folders by alphabetical ordering. I don't think it was by timestamp.

I am, however, going back into the media and removing all non-essential files. Various programs add metadata files for all kinds of stuff. AlbumArt*, *.nfo, *.xml, *.png, *.jpg, etc. I have to check to see what PCM is using for folder art. I think it's the 'folder.jpg' file if there's one present. I may create a powershell script that iterates through a directory tree to remove unwanted files. I don't know if these files impact the 10k limit or not. Again, it's hard to find missing things when you don't know where to look.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm, the wrinkle is Windows won't allow creating a removable disk with more than one partition on it. Ohhhh-kay. Hmm.

I'm going to try and work around that and see what PCM thinks about an SD card with more than one primary FAT32 partition on it.

Meanwhile, 55 minutes to transfer 21gb to the second partition... Sometimes testing just takes sooooo long....
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Got one partition loaded up. Fiddling around with partitions and loading the other one...
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Initial testing seems to indicate, no, the PCM won't recognize more than just the first partition created on an SD card. Not the first one by location on disk, but 1st in the partition table. This is not the result of an exhaustive test, I may not have created them in a way that PCM is prepared to deal with. I'll test some other ways later.

I also tested connecting an Android Samsung S7 phone via USB, in File Transfer mode. This works, treating the phone's storage like a drive. So there's that angle for folks curious about it.

The Owner's Manual doesn't mention it but some .ogg audio files played fine. For all you open source format fanatics out there.

I don't have an abundance of media formats on-hand, so I didn't try FLAC or anything besides .mp3 files. Given the 'acoustics' in a car, regardless of sound system type, you're kidding yourself bothering using anything 'better' than mp3. I'll trade convenience over audiophile rants, every time. You know who you are, crawl back in that hole...

I'm not sure what windows thinks about using multiple partitions on a removable hard drive. I'll have to put that on the list of things to test. If just to determine whether PCM can even see or deal with multiple partitions at all.

I'll also add that I saw a brief message flash on screen regarding exceeding the music database size. It came/went too quickly for me to quote the exact text.

What I haven't determined is if the 10k limit is just media tracks, or ALL files total. I was under the impression it was media tracks (mp3, ogg, etc). I'm paring down the files I'm using to just the media tracks and a single folder.jpg file (for cover art) in each directory. Then I'll be able to do some more accurate tests. Because with all the various tools I've used over the years there's a ton of metadata files crammed into my media folders. Some players have had more trouble than others dealing with all that cruft. I don't know if the PCM player has those issues or not... yet.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 06:43 AM
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I have had no issues with MP4 files. I removed all of the MP4a files from my SD card, which got me below 10 000 files.
After that PCM update the SD card worked a lot better, it remembered the track/playlist it was last playing, and loaded faster.
I would guess that the PCM source selector is not programmed to handle partitions, so they will not be accessible.
It will be interesting to see the outcome.
I was going to try putting everything on a USB stick to see if there is any difference, but have not found the time yet

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